From newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!ists!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!aisb!cam Tue Nov 19 11:09:48 EST 1991
Article 1286 of comp.ai.philosophy:
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>From: cam@aisb.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
Subject: Re: Chinese Room Variant
Keywords: ai philosophy searle expert system
Message-ID: <1991Nov12.125157.11162@aisb.ed.ac.uk>
Date: 12 Nov 91 12:51:57 GMT
References: <1991Nov7.151439.3353@osceola.cs.ucf.edu> <kas9aB8w164w@elrond.toppoint.de>
Reply-To: cam@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Organization: Dept AI, Edinburgh University, Scotland
Lines: 45

In article <kas9aB8w164w@elrond.toppoint.de> freitag@elrond.toppoint.de (Claus Schoenleber) writes:
>clarke@next1 (Thomas Clarke) writes:

>> A child is taught an abstract system of computation with two operations
>> on the set of all finite strings formed from the set {A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J}.
>> ....
>> After much tutelage by an expert system, the child is able to perform & and @
>> for arbitrary pairs of strings with nearly flawless accuracy.
>> 
>> My question is:  Does the child understand the concept of number? 
>> arithmetic?

>> I would say not; it seems to me there is more to number than computational
>> manipulations.

>I would say yes.

>And as I remember, my first performing in and multiplying numbers was
>learned by heart. Later I learned to use those basic results in larger
>multiplications. I don't think anyone else had a different "arithmetical
>evolution".
>There may be the fact that "understanding" is just another term for
>"to get used to it" (see J.v.Neuman).

In the UK we used to have money units of pounds, shillings, and pence,
such that there were 12 pence in a shilling and twenty shillings in a
pound. Every child was taught how to do the basic arithmetic operations
on this money.

In a teacher training college my friend has the job of training primary
teachers how to do arithmetic to arbitrary bases. The teachers hated it
and found it very confusing -- binary, ternary, octal, hexadecimal,
etc.. He used to conclude the lecture by introducing a special double
base system with 12 sprigs in a sprog, and 20 sprogs in a sprug. The
teachers would inevtiably have dreadful trouble with it, horribly
confusing, until one genius would cry out "hey, it's the same as money!"
Suddenly everybody could do it easily.

So, did these teachers understand arithmetic? Did they understand how to
do English money sums? Or were they just blindly following rules with no
understanding, like the Chinese Room?
-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aipna   +44 (0)31 667 1011 x2550
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205


