Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.mathworks.com!news.kei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!goonsquad.spies.com!mirror2.apple.com!times.aux.apple.com!mumbo.apple.com!pcnntp.apple.com!susser.apple.com!user
From: susser@apple.com (Joshua Susser)
Subject: Re: OpenDoc?
Sender: news@pcnntp.apple.com
Message-ID: <susser-0607951403250001@susser.apple.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 21:03:25 GMT
References: <3s9ilu$5pm@fountain.mindlink.net> <3sc8ag$ihb@kaleka2.seanet.com> <Jan.Bytesmiths-2606951457370001@138.120.62.112> <3t4ng6$k4i@kaleka.seanet.com>
Organization: Apple Computer, AppleSoft
Lines: 54

In article <3t4ng6$k4i@kaleka.seanet.com>, atkinson@atkinson.seanet.com
(Bob Atkinson) wrote:
> It is in the following sense that I see OpenDoc as indeed 'less of a 
> product than OLE.'

Well, until we actually ship, I can't argue that we aren't a product yet. 
But that is NOT going to be a year from now.  Where have you been hiding,
Bob?  All of our recent announcements have said we'd be shipping this
year.

> OLE2 shipped in May '93 (more than two years ago) within a couple of 
> months of its original two year schedule.

And when did OLE2 Mac ship?  OpenDoc is a cross-platform technology from
the start.  So our Mac + Windows coverage isn't as far behind your
coverage of both those platforms as you imply, and we will also support
OS/2 and Unix at roughly the same time.

> Today there are more than 600 shipping commercial OLE2 applications.

How many of those applications implement only support for Drag&Drop?  I
seem to recall that Drag&Drop is part of the OLE2 APIs, and so support for
that has been counted as OLE2 support.  If we counted OpenDoc adoption
that way, we'd already have hundreds of applications that support us, and
we aren't even shipping yet.  A better question might be, how many
applications fully support the OLE2 API?  How many server applications are
there?

> In contrast, over roughly the same time period Apple has through a 
> succession of at-least-renamed projects Exemplar, Amber, and then 
> OpenDoc. OpenDoc at Nov Comdex 93 was still publically on a H1 94 release 
> date for all the platforms, complete with cross platform interop and OLE 
> interop.

You forgot "Jedi".  Yes, the name changed, but it's been the same project
throughout.  What are you implying?  Apple changes codenames all the time
- doesn't Microsoft?  I've been working on what is now called OpenDoc for
three years now, without any interruptions (and man do I need a
vacation...) or major changes in direction.  Q1 94?  I don't ever remember
us saying that - we didn't even start work on Jedi until mid-93.

> The latest I have heard (please correct if I'm not up to speed) 
> is that current ETA is at the least not this year and probably is more. 
> And at that, I understand, not with the complete complement of 
> interoperability.

I'm correcting you now, Bob.  We will ship on Mac this year, as all of our
recent announcements have said.  Didn't you see the big to-do at PC Expo? 
I don't know when the Windows and OS/2 stuff is shipping exactly, but it
shouldn't be too long after we do.

Joshua Susser, Object Contortionist
Apple Computer - OpenDoc Engineering
inet: susser@apple.com | link: susser.j | phone: 408/974-6997
