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From: deb5@midway.uchicago.edu (Daniel von Brighoff)
Subject: Re: Transliteration [was: Re: Pinyin
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References: <7fybe9ur4n.fsf@phoenix.cs.hku.hk> <7fhgkvvffy.fsf@phoenix.cs.hku.hk> <E3Kn96.Mp@midway.uchicago.edu> <7fohf359nc.fsf@phoenix.cs.hku.hk>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:48:10 GMT
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In article <7fohf359nc.fsf@phoenix.cs.hku.hk>,
Lee Sau Dan ~{@nJX6X~} <sdlee@cs.hku.hk> wrote:
>>>>>> "Daniel" == Daniel von Brighoff <deb5@midway.uchicago.edu> writes:
>
>    >>  Why not find 26 Chinese characters and map them to the 26
>    >> letters in the Latin alphabet?
>
>    Daniel> And saddle Chinese speakers with learning English
>    Daniel> orthography?  The whole point of transliteration is to
>    Daniel> give someone an aid to pronounciation; you're filtering
>    Daniel> the unfamiliar through the familiar.  
>
>I agree  with you on this  IF we are  talking  about phonetic scripts.
>Should this  principle apply for  an ideographic script?   Do you know
>how    a   Mandarin  or   Cantonese   speaker  pronounces  the Chinese
>transliteration of    "Homes"   in    "Sherlock Homes",   which     is
>transliterated according to Hokkien?

	Yup.  That's the problem when you don't have single standard
transliteration method.

>    Daniel> I think using
>    Daniel> Bopomofo for transliteration is a great idea.  
>
>It is good only for Mandarin speakers.  

	That's not true.  Bopomofo are *not* like characters; people don't
automatically associate certain pronunciations with them.  All you would
need do is teach them the nearest equivalents in their speech.  Take a
name like Nixon which, IIRC, is Nikesen in Mandarin, making it Neihaksam
in Cantonese.  In Bopomofo, it is <n><i><k><e><s><en>.  If you teach a
Cantonese equivalents in his language for Bopomofo, he will be able to
come out with the pronunciation [ni:kh@s@n], which is a considerable
improvement over [nejh@ks@m].

	Besides, don't all countries with Chinese as an official language
have the goal of making all citizens Mandarin speakers anyway?

>    Daniel> It would
>    Daniel> produce more accurate results, would avoid unfelicitous
>    Daniel> interpretations (think of the original transliteration of
>    Daniel> Coca Cola, for instance), and would introduce Chinese
>    Daniel> speakers to using a non-logographic system.
>
>Are  you  implying that a non-logographic   system is better?  I don't
>think so.  I don't think the current Chinese script is difficult for a
>Chinese to  learn.   In Hongkong,  a child who  have completed primary
>education (elementary school) can read and write letters in Chinese --
>with  the  traditional characters.   He  can also  read newspapers and
>novels.  Is this script that difficult?

	I don't see that I implied this; I certainly didn't mean to. I
think it's best to be familiar with all kinds of scripts.  English
speakers would benefit as much from learning Bopomofo or some characters
as Chinese speakers would from learning Bopomofo or the Latin alphabet.

-- 
	 Daniel "Da" von Brighoff    /\          Dilettanten
	(deb5@midway.uchicago.edu)  /__\         erhebt Euch
				   /____\      gegen die Kunst!
