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From: rdd@usa1.com (Aaron J. Dinkin)
Subject: Re: "Bother" and "father" rhyme (was: Re: Chain Shift (was Tendency of Inflections to Disappear))
Message-ID: <rdd-0908961055310001@dmn1-21.usa1.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 10:55:31 -0500
References: <4suk93$pob@carrera.intergate.bc.ca> <rdd-2607961343260001@dmn1-39.usa1.com> <31FE66AD.7824@qualcomm.com> <rte-3107961047100001@135.25.40.118> <4u4p0j$mef@shellx.best.com> <rte-0508961326490001@135.25.40.118> <rdd-0608960947340001@dmn1-67.usa1.com> <32075346.D14@eurocontrol.fr> <EIJKHOUT.96Aug6121549@jacobi.math.ucla.edu> <rdd-0608961803010001@dmn1-67.usa1.com> <4u8lio$kat@news3.digex.net> <EIJKHOUT.96Aug6175318@jacobi.math.ucla.edu> <rte-0608962153100001@135.25.41.185> <rdd-0708961734470001@dmn1-35.usa1.com> <320a7801.132134116@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
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In article <320a7801.132134116@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, exw6sxq@ix.netcom.com
(Bob Cunningham) wrote:

> rdd@usa1.com (Aaron J. Dinkin) wrote:
> 
>      [...]
> 
> >Not to people who don't have a phonemic distinction between the two (so
> >"bother" rhymes with "father", of all bizarre things)
> 
>      It's not bizarre at all.  The rhyme is normal for millions of
> Americans of all education levels.  "Father" and "bother" are shown as
> rhyming words in the Collegiate Tenth Edition and in Webster's Third New
> International.

I was being facetious. I am aware that some people rhyme "father" with
"bother"; it's been discussed at least three times in as many months, so I
said "of all bizarre things", trusting that people would understand the
facetiousness. Take note, Truly.

>      In the pronunciation guide of the Third New International, the
> symbol () that is used for the "a" in "father" and the "o" in "bother"
> is explained as follows:
> 
>           bother, cot; most American speakers have the same 
>           vowel in father, cart
> 
>      A second pronunciation is given for "father", using an "a" with a
> single dot over it, which symbol is explained as follows:
> 
>           father as pronounced by speakers who do not rhyme
>           it with bother; farther and cart as pronounced by
>           r-droppers
> 
>      I've never been conscious of hearing any pronunciation of "father"
> that didn't rhyme with "bother".  The vowel symbolized by the "a" with a
> single dot is almost a complete mystery to me.  If I were to guess what
> it sounds like I would guess that it sounds like the Boston "ar" in
> "farther", which in turn sounds to me as if it's somewhere between my
> "a" in "father" and my "a" in "fat".    

That's precisely where it is. [A] (which you use in "father") is low back,
[&] ("fat") is low front, and [a] (I use it in "father") is low central,
straight south from [@], [V"], and [V] (sic).

>      In what part of the country is "father" not rhymed with "bother"?

I'm not sure where - I assume it's fairly common around here (greater
Boston), but then I know someone who was capable of homophonizing "Mahler"
and "maul 'er". Anyone know?

I know BrE makes the "father"/"bother" distinction, using [A] in one and
[A.] in the other. My dialect uses [a] where BrE uses [A] and [A] for its
[A.]. They're the same two phonemes, but the BrE allophones differ from my
own.

-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom

