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From: rte@elmo.lz.att.com (Ralph T. Edwards)
Subject: Re: "Wanna come with?"
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References: <453kip$qmd@mckinley.cit.macalstr.edu> <1995Oct9.110002.21719@onionsnatcorp.ox.ac.uk> <45gik1$gk6@majestix.uni-muenster.de>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 23:08:29 GMT
Lines: 34

In article <45gik1$gk6@majestix.uni-muenster.de>,
kammerk@urix1.uni-muenster.de (Kai Kmmerer) wrote:
 
> The equivalent phrase to 'wanna come with' in German would be 'kommst du
> mit?', or, in slang 'kommste mit?'
> 'kommst ... mit' is a so-called seperated verb. The infinitve is
> 'mitkommen', i.e. to come along. Therefore, the 'mit'-bit in German is not
> being used as an adverb (see above) like in English. It is just the prefix
> of the verb that is sent to the end of the sentence. 'wanna come with?'
> strikes people because there is no verb 'to withcome' in the English
> language, and verbs are not seperated as in German.
> 

Yes, but these are just different traditional grammar names for what is 
obviously the same phenomenon in both languages, with the difference that the 
prefix-like element in English always follows the verb and is written 
separately.  Every German knows this instinctively and takes 'flipped out' and 
turns it into 'ausgeflippt'.  Consider the following. I use words other than
with, since with is not used this way in grammar book English, or my
English for that matter.

turn up - appear
turn out ~= become
turn down - refuse
turn in - go to bed

Are these final elements adverbs or an intrinsic part of a new semantic unit?
It seems to me they are more like words than idioms.  Whether something should
be considered a word should not be a matter of where we put spaces, at
least not in a sci. group.  And the meaning of grammar in a linguistics
group cannot come from traditional grammar books.

-- 
R.T.Edwards rte@elmo.att.com 908 576-3031
