Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto,sci.lang
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!news2.near.net!news.mathworks.com!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uknet!cix.compulink.co.uk!usenet
From: antony@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Antony Rawlinson")
Subject: Re: Esperanto nouns
Message-ID: <D7ppuJ.4C@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Organization: ABC                           
References: <1995Apr22.003557.16667@guvax>
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 21:18:18 GMT
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Lines: 51

In reply to message <1995Apr22.003557.16667@guvax>, 
from David Harris <harrisd@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu>:

> ... Esperanto is clearly Romance-based and in Romance-based languages,
> -o generally indicates masculine such that patrino sounds more like an 
> ink cartridge or a magazine for a weapon than a mother.

Esperanto is not Romance-based.  Similarities with some European 
languages are simply a result of Zamenhof's choice of "raw material" when 
creating the language.  What -o as an ending indicates in Romance 
languages is neither here nor there, because imitating them has never 
been a priority, nor should it be.

> ... I am just pointing out that having all words in in a certain vowel
> is outdated and unnecessary. In Novial, nouns ending in -o are
> masucline and in -a feminine. ...

It's not clear here what is meant by the description "outdated", unless 
the system chosen in Novial is meant to supersede it.  In Esperanto, 
nouns end in -o, adjectives in -a, verbs in -i (infinitive), -as (present 
tense), -is (past) or -os (future).  This allows any word root to be used 
as a noun, an adjective or a verb as required, for example:

patro   father
patra   of the father   (eg, "patra/patrina lingvo" = "father/mother
                        language")
patri   to father (in a biological sense)

patreco         fatherhood
patreca         fatherly (in behaviour)
patreci         to behave in a fatherly manner

The distinction between "patra" and "patreca" is a slightly subtle one, 
but understanding of this comes with practice, as in any ethnic language. 
 Note that in English similar mechanisms exist, but not one which may be 
consistently used.

This might seem strange to someone unfamiliar with the language, but it 
is an extremely powerful feature of E-o which becomes evident after using 
the language in a variety of situations.  It is neither "outdated" nor 
"unnecessary".  I have the impression from this posting of David Harris 
that his knowledge of auxiliary languages is no more than theoretical.

I can't argue the inherent merits of E-o and Novial, because I don't know 
the latter (although if Novial contains grammatical gender this does seem 
to me to be an unnecessary feature).  However, Esperanto remains, as far 
as I know, the only one of the auxiliary languages in which it is 
possible to meet a large number of people on a practical basis.  All the 
others, as far as I know, remain largely theoretical exercises.

Antony Rawlinson.
