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From: gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis)
Subject: Re: XX cty glagolitic
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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 23:47:58 GMT
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In article <3nkr5r$1rt@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>,
Marek Konski <marek1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>In <D7MHxs.EBy@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU
>(Gregory  Dandulakis) writes: 
>
>>The Germanics in Spain originated the differentiating dogma of
>>Catholicism.
>
>Could you provide some details, dates, names, places, titles, etc.?


From the previous book from Oxford, page 146, I quote quickly:

"In the controversy between Orthodoxy and Rome, from the time of
Photius in the ninth century onwards, there were two fundamental
issues.  East and West differed, first, concerning the procession
of the Holy Spirit... But the Greeks recited the Nicene-Constanti-
nopolitan creed in its original form... The Latins, on the other
hand, had inserted the "Filioque" into the creed... The addition
seems to have originated in Spain during the sixth century, but
was not adopted at Rome itself until the early eleventh century..."

I may add that early eleventh century was when the Germanic Emperor
Henry III forced the appointment of a German pope, after he had
deposed three pontiffs who all claimed to be the righhtful pope
(in the past, of course, many Saxon emperors had overthrown popes).
And most of the 11th century popes (the crucial "reformers") were
Germans. Of course, the popes, themselves in effect feudal lords,
in a world of extensive feudal fragmentation, they were soon turning
against their benefactor emperors, using other alliances. Nevertheless,
the whole game was endo-Germanic.


>>These were the years which split Catho-
>>licism from the rest of the Churches in the East.
>
>Or vice versa. Depending on one's point of viev.


See above quote.



>Once more, I wrote about Gregory VII, Henry IV and Canossa and you
>conveniently ignored it, because that din't serve your purpose.


I didn't conveniently ignored it. I simply see it as an endo-Germanic
feuding. There was no unity within the Germanics, and the alliances
were as fluid as the water.


>I didn't discuss any Turks but the Latin script and I don't care about
>them. Besides, it is not clear whether you consider this terminology to
>be correct or not. 
>
>Still, you didn't prove, despite so great an effort, that the Holy
>Roman Empire introduced the Latin script to any country.


I didn't "prove" it simply because this was not my point of objection.

I expressed the opinion that there was no independent Church in the
West which was dealing with the non-Germanics as such. I evaluated
that the Church in Rome was simply an endo-Germanic affair.

At any rate, I will simply conclude with a generalization:

There is nothing absolute in politics (in life in general too).
If we assume that the players who were influencing the Church
in Rome during the middle ages were 100 equally powerfull rulers
(kings, independent feudals, emperors, whatever), and that the
rulers were independent from each other (very weak assumption,
but as a first approximation) who were entering completely random-
ly and opportunistically into alliances with each other to force
their point on Papacy, then we can say: Since 90 of those players
were Germanics (in France, Germany, Britain, Spain, Italy, etc),
and 10 were "etc democratic followers (:-))" (that is, Romans, va-
rious Slavics, Normans, etc), then we can roughly say that 90% of
the characteristics evolved into the Western Church were of Germa-
nic origin, and the rest 10% were non-Germanic. That's all. Under
these conditions, it is perfectly justifiable to say that the Church
in Rome during the Middle Ages was, at a first order approximation,
a Germanic tool, with a touch of others.


Gregory
