Newsgroups: sci.lang
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!rochester!udel!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uknet!festival!edcogsci!iad
From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Subject: Re: Question: Vowelless word
Message-ID: <D62AKy.6vJ@cogsci.ed.ac.uk>
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK
References: <3jtjjn$s5k@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au> <3k6086$ist$2@mhadg.production.compuserve.com> <1995Mar16.185556.12295@chemabs.uucp>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 19:10:17 GMT
Lines: 38

In article <1995Mar16.185556.12295@chemabs.uucp> rturkel@cas.org (Rick Turkel) writes:
>In article <3k6086$ist$2@mhadg.production.compuserve.com>, Jacques Thury  <75107.2170@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>>Serbo-Croatian:
>>    trg = place, market
>>    Island of Krk
>
>Bzzzzt.  I'm sorry, but this is incorrect.  In Serbocroatian the letter
>"r" between two consonants _is_ a vowel, the so-called "syllabic r." It
>just looks like a consonant to those unfamiliar with this concept.

Are we dealing with two conflicting definitions of `vowel' here?

(1) /r/ in _trg_ is a vowel because it is the peak of a syllable.
   Since every syllable has a peak, every syllable has a vowel, so
   a vowelless word has to be non-syllabic.  I can think of seven
   such words in Russian (three prepositions and four particles).
   *Puzzle*: Which ones are they?  (No cash prizes, I'm afraid.)

(2) /r/ in _trg_ is a consonant because speech organ #1 is in contact
   with speech organ #2.  Now this makes the search for vowelless
   words and languages which permit them a little more interesting.

>Sort of like English vowels, which are "a" "e" "i" "o" "u" and
>sometimes "y" [...]

Also sometimes _w_ (eg _cwm_).

Also sometimes _gh_ (eg _Edinburgh_).

I think we might as well junk the myth that vowelhood/consonanthood
is a property of letters, in any case in English, where there is
hardly any correspondence between phonemes and graphemes.

-- 
`"Na, na ... ah mean, *no wey*, wi aw due respect, ma lady," stammers Joe.'
Ivan A Derzhanski (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk)    (J Stuart, _Auld Testament Tales_)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,   Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House E113, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Pk Rd, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK
