Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!cam-news-feed3.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!ix.netcom.com!news.he.net!news.cichlid.com!news.scruz.net!cruzio.com!news
From: jordan@cruzio.com (Jordan Bortz)
Subject: Re: Goodbye ParcPlace
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Reply-To: jordan@cruzio.com
Sender: news@cruzio.com (System Administrator)
Organization: Object Productions Inc
Message-ID: <E42G25.K7s@cruzio.com>
References: <5b6mc5$s6b@chronicle.concentric.net> <32e040ba.89373231@news.jumppoint.com> <E3yptv.M8@cruzio.com> <c0.9w.2DgtcZ$08K@craftedsmalltalk.com> <E40MF7.57J@cruzio.com> <32DC73FF.2F82@parcplace.com>
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: mbay5.cruzio.com
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:05:31 GMT
Lines: 56

Well, Eric, I am aware of whats available...The thread is ParcPlace
not VisualAge.  What I am concerned with is VisualWORKS and of course,
there are NO NATIVE widgets for VisualWorks, nor is there ODBC of
course.

The fact that there is for VisualAge shows how slow PPD has been at
these things...and PPD doesnt seem to be pushing VSE for that task
from what I can see, nor do I like the product line.

Ok -- well, things may not be "dropping off" but they sure arent
growing...

BTW while you're at it Eric, can you tell us why PPD spends $2M/Qtr on
General and Administration, as much as they do on development?

Can those secretaries program?
	Jordan

Eric Clayberg <clayberg@parcplace.com> wrote:

>Jordan Bortz wrote:
>>I've seen a huge drop off in apparent activity, postings, contracts,
>>purchases, etc...  Anyone else seeing this or is it just me?

>I think its just you. The volume of traffic on this newsgroup is up
>considerably over that of a year ago. We are constantly being bombarded
>with job offers and consulting opportunities. Almost all of the
>Smalltalk consulting companies (including PP-D's own professional
>services organization) are actively looking to hire new consultants to
>keep up with an ever increasing supply of work. 

>> I dont consider myself to be taken in by hype -- it could be that
>> managers are being taken in by hype, but they are the ones that scope
>> out projects.  But as someone whos been doing this since 1987 and
>> someone who wrote the first Pro level gui builder for VisualWorks, I
>> can say, with Java, I've seen this all before. They are basically on a
>> neck with VW in terms of a "pseudo" gui architecture (very VW based)
>> with a poor event mechanism.

>> So unless the Smalltalk community starts to add some NEW REAL VALUE
>> to the pie, and catch up RAPIDLY with the Native Widgets, ODBC et al,
>> we may find ourselves...

>For someone who has been involved with the Smalltalk community since
>1987, I am rather surprised by your lack of knowledge of what is
>available. Native widgets, ODBC et al have been available for Smalltalk
>for quite a few years now. In fact, aside from VisualWorks which
>currently does lack native widgets, all of the other commercially
>available Smalltalk dialects (e.g., VisualSmalltalk, VisualAge,
>Smalltalk MT, Dolphin, Object Studio, etc.) use native widgets (and
>provide ODBC drivers as well). VisualSmalltalk, for example, is even
>fully Windows 95 logo certified (as may be some of the other dialects).

>-Eric


