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From: moroz@inist.ru (Oleg Moroz)
Subject: Re: Common LISP: The Next Generation
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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 21:07:29 GMT
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Xref: glinda.oz.cs.cmu.edu comp.lang.lisp:22507 comp.lang.dylan:7119 comp.lang.scheme:16699

>> Where is it being used? I guess it must has a very low profile,
>> coz I only ever read about it on UseNet, in newsgroups like
>> comp.lang.lisp.
>
>Ever heard of AutoCad? Reduce? MuMath? Never heard of Macsyma?
>HotMeTaL? Interleaf? Abuse? A lot of CAD systems are using Lisp.
>Math software is using Lisp. Music software is using Lisp. Electrical
>CAD software uses Lisp. Diverse AI software uses Lisp. How
>does it come there are so many Lisp implementations for the PC?

[I'm sure the original author meant not Lisp itself (having low profile), but
some particular commercial Lisp implementor, whom he tried to contact about some
features he needed.]

Have you heard that AutoDesk is switching for Visual Basic for Applications ? I
never heard about other Lisp-based CAD systems. What market share do they have ?
What market share has Reduce or MuMath or Macsyma ? As far as I can tell it's
still Mathematica and Maple and MathCAD world. Abuse is a nice game, but about 2
percent of my friends interested in computer games even heard of it, not mention
playing. It's still Doom, Terminal Velocity and Sierra On-Line quests world. AI
software using Lisp ? Yes, I know the term... but I don't know any AI soft on
the mass market. Can you tell me the name ?

So guys, Common Lisp is wonderful language. Scheme is wondeful language. Dylan
is wonderful language. Haskell is even more wondeful. I can't wait for the time
when I can write the kind of applications I write for living in one of these
wonderful languages. But right now I just can't. And nobody can do it right now.


Most Lisp implementations for PC either lack major features I need everyday
(small executables, using "native" system features (in Windows it's OLE2, OCX's,
DLL generation and usage, multi-threadness, good integration with native API,
etc), good development environment, speedy execution of resulting production
code, ...) or are priced too much and still lack some of these features. Really,
I never seen the Lisp/Dylan/SML/Haskell-based development environment that
satisfied even a half of my needs. And Visual C++ or Delphi 2.0 for example, is
not perfect, but meets my needs _much_ better. And I don't talk about writing
drivers or some low-level hacks - it's pure user interface.

Another point here - have you seen the work done at Microsoft research labs on
Intentional Programming ? That thing is supposed to end language wars once and
for all - and it's real I'd say... And I'm sure it will integrate with Windows
as seamlessly as possible - it's Microsoft after all. Too bad they say it'll be
in "product" state in 2000 :-(

Oleg
