Newsgroups: comp.lang.java,comp.lang.dylan
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!oitnews.harvard.edu!purdue!haven.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news2.acs.oakland.edu!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!news.cas.org!chemabs!lwv26
From: lwv26@cas.org (Larry W. Virden)
Subject: Re: java and dylan [was: JAVA IS OBSELETE AND WILL DIE!!!!!!!!]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Message-ID: <1995Dec30.131243.28684@chemabs.uucp>
Sender: lwv26@chemabs.uucp (Larry W. Virden)
Reply-To: lvirden@cas.org
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Organization: Nedriv Software and Shoe Shiners, Uninc.
References: <4aq6nv$cbh@felix.junction.net> <4aqc4m$3h9@soenews.ucsd.edu> <DJzxCo.Mt7@news.hawaii.edu> <4bkkrc$m5s@panix2.panix.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 13:12:43 GMT
Lines: 50
Xref: glinda.oz.cs.cmu.edu comp.lang.java:12815 comp.lang.dylan:6272


According to Chris Trimble <trimble@panix.com>:
:Peter Hinely (phinely@Hawaii.Edu) wrote:
: It's true that Dylan and Java have been aimed towards two different
:areas, but I think that Java will overtake Dylan's market before Dylan
:can overtake Java's market.  The two areas that Java has a real lead

I doubt there is any attempt on the part of developers in either 
language to overtake the other's 'market'.  Dylan doesn't appear to
be focusing on security, portable binaries, WWW browsing, while Java doesn't
appear to be concerned with dynamic types, etc.

: If Apple wants Dylan to go head-to-head with Java, they need to do

Ah, now here's the rub.  Apple doesn't want anything for Dylan.  Only
CMU and Harliquin appear as companies to have any major interest in
promoting Dylan.

: 1) Lock down packages for doing Java-like things (loading URL's,
:    opening sockets, threads (!!), cross-platform UI, etc)

Actually, there isn't much about Java in loading URLs, opening sockets
or doing threads - other languages have been doing those things for
some time now.  And I don't know of anything currently available in
Java being developed to do _good_ cross-platform UIs.  The minimalistic
UI supported in AWT won't provide anyone with native look and feel
as far as I can tell, and so stand alone Java apps are going to have
problems competing with apps which do use the local GUI.

: 2) Write a browser in Dylan that can do Dylan applets AND Java applets.

Sigh - readers of the Dylan mailing list will recall I suggested that
the Dylan team work on a single proof of concept browser a year ago.
My argument was they were going to need a 'killer app' to get the pr
needed to promote the language.  

: 3) Release browser and interpreter and pacakges for free, like Sun did.
:    Get other developers to license Dylan so it will work in their
:    browsers and interpreters.
:

There are some interpreters for Dylan-like languages now available.
Hopefully some commercial versions of Dylan will soon appear.
This will add legit to the language.

-- 
:s Larry W. Virden                 INET: lvirden@cas.org
:s <URL:http://www.teraform.com/%7Elvirden/> <*>
:s Unless explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should 
:s be construed as representing my employer's opinions.
