Newsgroups: comp.robotics
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!news2.near.net!news.mathworks.com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!redstone.interpath.net!hilbert.dnai.com!nic.scruz.net!earth.armory.com!rstevew
From: rstevew@armory.com (Richard Steven Walz)
Subject: Re: Was RE: INS, inappropriate language now
Organization: The Armory
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 13:11:01 GMT
Message-ID: <D030Mn.M6J@armory.com>
References: <3bdssk$laq@csli.stanford.edu> <3bfq01$1jtl@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> <3bg3qq$20c@mojo.eng.umd.edu>
Sender: news@armory.com (Usenet News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: deepthought.armory.com
Lines: 86

In article <3bg3qq$20c@mojo.eng.umd.edu>,
Vadim Polyakov <polyakov@eng.umd.edu> wrote:
>
>In article <3bfq01$1jtl@bigblue.oit.unc.edu>, Jeremy.Roth@launchpad.unc.edu (Jeremy Roth) writes:
>>In article <3bdssk$laq@csli.stanford.edu>,
>>Phil Kahn <pkahn@Csli.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>>>>> From: calvin@netcom.com (John Calvin)
>>>>> Subject:  More Gyro details. (Was Inertial Gyro Specs)
>>>>> Organization: Ceiba Engineering
>>>
>>>>> the mood of the sales person is behind the counter.  Saturday I bought
>>>>> three for two bucks apiece, and went back tonight to buy some more and was
>>>>  told they now cost five bucks apeice.  I jewed him down to $3.50 each which 
>>>					    ^^^^^
>>>
>>>I can't tell you how inappropriate such language is. THINK about what
>>>this means. I don't know John, so I can't comment on whether he is
>>>antisemetic, I hope not, but this "term" is a slur, it does not belong
>>>in our language, and it offends me.  
>>>
>>>I was surprised no one else called him on this...
>>>
>>
>>Oh please. If you're offended, then go ahead and cry - the rest of us knew
>>exactly what he meant and didn't have to be antisemetic or read ulterior
>>meanings inot a simple slang term.
>>
>>Do you have the same problems with the word Jewelry?
>>
>>
>>Jeremy Roth
>>       ^^^^
>>-- 
>
>Since that is a public forum I realize that there are all kinds of people, 
>including jews and antisemites.  But as public forum discussing robotics, 
>it should not be acceptablee that any group should feel unwelcome. I am jew 
>and this kind of slur deeply offends me (as may be expected) by perpetuating a 
>negative stereotype of me (namely greed because I am jew).  The fact that 
>everybody may know what it means is just testifies to along history of
>antisemitism and how hard we have to fight it (even in these small ways).
>Thanks,
>-vadim
---------------------------------
I understand that Jews can be offended if they see this as a negative
"greedy" caricature so popular with Nazis. But then again, I have also
heard Jews use it, and in a congratulatory manner, as a positive tribute to
some alleged business acumen that Jews are supposed to be known for. In
most places in Europe going into the merchant class WAS the only rung of
the ladder open to any of the medievally frowned-on religions, from
Unitarians to Jews to Puritans and dissenters of every stripe, Puritan and
Calvinists. I have seen this from the outside and the inside because, while
not of Jewish decent myself, my son is, and I lived in a very close Jewish
family for about 18 years as a consequence. Mr. Roth, above, is not
troubled, whereas Vadim is. I don't know what to say except that, to Jews
who may be sensitive, I think the old characterization is fading, simply
because most Jews are NOT of the medieval merchant class any longer, and
the usage is slipping except where it seems for the world to be propagated
as much by Jews themselves as by anyone else, in large cities where there
are substantial Jewish communities and neighborhoods. Many people in the
"hinterlands" of the midwest, as an example, don't even know the term, or
if they do, are not even fully aware of its origin. Thus, be somewhat
comforted that no prejudicial sentiment is really gaining sway among those
who have said it. It is a convenient linguistic construct in english, at
least when Jews are not around to be offended and when there is no offense
at all intended by the gentiles who use the term as shorthand without even
thinking of a meaning for it. I'd like to see a time when the stereotypes
in the mind are absent, but the interesting and harmless "short-order"
phrases are left as merely interesting coloration for the english
langauage. It has happened with other ethnic groups. We all know about the
stereotypes of other European groups who emigrated here, and we still say
the silly things in jest that everyone knows is not true about different
groups, just for fun, and all laugh at these phrases. I know that Jews have
had it hard this century, but hopefully, with the next century now, this
process of warming to a friendship with all other groups will overcome mere
words in which is no longer invested any hate. Then we have the problem of
the condition and resentments of Americans of African descent! Oy vey! Will
it ever stop!

-Steve Walz    rstevew@armory.com   ftp.armory.com /pub/user/rstevew
ObCompRobotics:
(Check my mini-ftp site for FAQ files and tutorials. Write me for specific
requests, as I have much more informative stuff in the archives that is 
not yet on the ftp dir.)


