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From: deb5@midway.uchicago.edu (Daniel von Brighoff)
Subject: Re: Japanese Pronouns
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References: <01bc265a$a239f270$275ee8cd@sal9000> <E7Cy0D.26H@midway.uchicago.edu> <3331A6B9.2981@qualcomm.com> <E7EuEB.57o@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 20:49:13 GMT
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In article <E7EuEB.57o@midway.uchicago.edu>,
Daniel von Brighoff <deb5@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>In article <3331A6B9.2981@qualcomm.com>,
>Holoholona  <" bmoore"@qualcomm.com> wrote:
>>Daniel von Brighoff wrote:
>>
>>> Furthermore, some even argue that Japanese doesn't have any true pronouns,
>>> but that's another matter altogether.
>>
>>I always had trouble fathoming that.   A few semesters of Japanese didn't
>>get me to the depth of understanding the etymology of the Japanese
>>pronouns, I just learned to try to avoid them when I could.
>>
>>But, I'm curious.  Could you (or anyone else) try to elaborate on this?
>
>Well, it's not my argument, so I'm not sure how good a case I can make.
>The bases seem to be (1) the class of "personal pronouns" in Japanese is
>open-ended (and, as Bill Vaughn has shown, suprisingly fluid) and (2)
>etymologically, most "personal pronouns" are common nouns.

I meant to include (3) Japanese, like Korean, is radically pro-drop, which
I think encourages some speakers of I-E languages (where pronouns are
often mandatory) to view the "pronominal" classes as much more marginal in
those languages.  In other words, Japanese pronominals aren't "true
pronouns" because they don't behave the way "true" (i.e. I-E) pronouns do.

>On the other hand, I don't think the average Japanese associates
>'watakushi' and 'boku' with anything but first-person reference (and
>possibly watermelon juice, but that's neither here nor there.)

For those who missed this reference, "Boku" [macrons on both vowels] is an
American brand of watermelon-based fruit juice drinks.  They probably call
it "Bookuu" in Japan (if they have it at all), but I can't help thinking
of chimpira whenever I hear the ads...

-- 
	 Daniel "Da" von Brighoff    /\          Dilettanten
	(deb5@midway.uchicago.edu)  /__\         erhebt Euch
				   /____\      gegen die Kunst!
