Newsgroups: sci.lang
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!news.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!ncar!uchinews!not-for-mail
From: deb5@midway.uchicago.edu (Daniel von Brighoff)
Subject: Re: Unlikely sound changes
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: ellis-nfs.uchicago.edu
Message-ID: <E7Ewrx.9nq@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator)
Organization: The University of Chicago
References: <adinkin-ya023180001703971944030001@news.usa1.com> <3330F2F4.7EE6@scruznet.com> <E7CKIv.JtH@midway.uchicago.edu> <3335e20f.10696197@news.xs4all.nl>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 21:23:57 GMT
Lines: 50

In article <3335e20f.10696197@news.xs4all.nl>,
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal <mcv@pi.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 20 Mar 1997 15:04:07 GMT, deb5@midway.uchicago.edu (Daniel von
>Brighoff) wrote:
>
>>In article <3330F2F4.7EE6@scruznet.com>,
>>Mike Wright  <darwin@scruznet.com> wrote:
>>>Daniel von Brighoff wrote:
>>>> 
>>>[...]
>>>> Actually, in Classical Arabic (and still today in some dialects, notably
>>>> some Bedouin ones and Sudanese), [g] became, er, a voiced palatal stop.

I checked the faq and the symbol is [J].

>>>It remains [g] in Egyptian Arabic. I wonder why.
>>
>>It shifts *back* to [g] in Egyptian Arabic.  This seems to me to be a
>>natural result of the pressure for symmetry I mentioned.
>
>Are you sure of that?  I hate to say "I don't believe it" without any
>data to back me up, but I don't believe it.

As sure as I am about anything wrt Arabic, which is not
if-I'm-wrong-take-my-thumbs sure, but isn't terribly unsure either.  I
think I first encountred this claim in the _Handbuch der arabischen
Dialekte_ (W. Fischer, O. Jastrow [eds.].  Wiesbaden, 1980) though could
also have been in Bergstraesser's _Einfuehrung in die semitische
Sprachen_ (Muenchen, 1928; Eng. trans. Winona Lake, c1983).  Since then I
have seen it confirmed elsewhere, so I assume there's textual evidence
(e.g. early Arabic borrowings into neighboring languages) to back it up.

After all, the other option is that sometime after the Islamic expansion,
[g] shifts to [J] or [dZ] absolutely everywhere in the Arabic-speaking
world except Lower Egypt--including in the most conservative Bedouin
dialects of the Arabian peninsula.  Is that somehow more plausible?

If it's the idea of a sound spontaneously palatising, then unpalatising
back to its former quality that troubles you, what's your preferred
explanation for palatalisation of the velars before Vulgar Latin /a(:)/ in
northern Gallo-Romance and Rhaeto-Romance?  Mine is [ka] -> [k%] -> [c%]
-> [ca]/[tSa] (and, in Francien, ultimately to [Sa]/[SE]/[S@]/etc.), which
requires /a/ to be fronted and then to shift back after it's done its job.



-- 
	 Daniel "Da" von Brighoff    /\          Dilettanten
	(deb5@midway.uchicago.edu)  /__\         erhebt Euch
				   /____\      gegen die Kunst!
