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From: brg@netcom.com (Bruce R. Gilson)
Subject: Re: tinkerers redux 
Message-ID: <brgE78M3v.EKq@netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom
References: <276@vision25.demon.co.uk> <332d53a0.243232@nntp.best.com> <brgE7706u.93I@netcom.com> <elnaE77FnH.DAF@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:47:55 GMT
Lines: 56
Sender: brg@netcom9.netcom.com

In article <elnaE77FnH.DAF@netcom.com>,
Esperanto League N America <elna@netcom.com> wrote:

[...]

>Again let me cite the distinction between conlang "tinkerers" & inventors,
>on the one hand, and conlang *users* on the other. It might well be that
>many tinkerers believe that Novial is a better arena for their passtime, 
>because it is still a *project* without a significant body of users to
>have established linguistic norms. Esperanto is no more open to forced
>changes than is English, Portuguese or any other language.
>Using language like "diehard group of 'Esperanto ueber alles' fanatics"
>reveals your lack of willingness to understand this important difference.
>Esperanto users do not believe that it is a perfect language, nor that
>there can be a perfect language. If you want to construct or polish a
>planned language, fine! Have at it! But why should you expect the 
>millions who already enjoy the fruits of using Esperanto to abandon that
>language for the sake of a new, unproven, unfinished, unsupported conlang??
>If Novial has broad support among members of the Auxlang list, then you
>should have a nice kernel of support from which to grow. Good luck with
>your project!

As far as I am concerned, E-o is just as much a project as Novial. And it
will continue to be a project in my mind until the first day I hear two
persons walking on the street, conversing in Esperanto, or go to a library
in my metropolitan area and see a book IN (as opposed to ON) Esperanto, or
go to a bookstore and see a book, either IN or ON Esperanto, other than
"Teach Yourself" types or dictionaries. And until that point, UNLESS it allows
tinkering to get it right, it's a lost cause in my mind.

I have never, in 50+ years of my life, heard a word of Esperanto spoken,
except someone correcting my pronunciation of "Asocio" over the phone. I
have only seen one Esperantist on IRC (other than in the #conlang channel)
and I have never seen a letter (either e-mail or paper) in E-o, except on
the conlang or auxlang list. I have never seen a book in Esperanto, except
for one in a used book store, and that one was filed as if it were an Esper-
anto practice book, rather than in religion (it was a life of Buddha), so
clearly (since foreign-language books in that store usually were filed by
subject) the store-keeper felt nobody would buy it except someone trying to
learn Esperanto. 

Saying that Esperanto is a language and the others are merely projects is
a delusion. Within your association, you run into Esperantists daily, but
this is like someone who attends Libertarian Party meetings (and so sees
dozens of Libertarians) thinking that we will soon have a Libertarian
president because he sees so many people who would vote that way.

I do not make the distinction that you consider so important, because it
does not exist.


                                Bruce R. Gilson
                                email: brg@netcom.com
                                IRC: EZ-as-pi
                                WWW: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3141
                                (for language stuff: add /langpage.html)
