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From: acli@byron.net4.io.org (Ambrose Li)
Subject: Re: Pinyin
Message-ID: <E31pvy.385@byron.net4.io.org>
Organization: somewhere in Scarborough, Canada running C News CR.E and some assorted hacks for NNTP (including a hacked nntpxmit derived from NNTP 1.5.12)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 00:11:57 GMT
References: <59sqso$n2e@reader.seed.net.tw> <59tl2s$2bd@malasada.lava.net> <7floalwggs.fsf@phoenix.cs.hku.hk>
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On 26 Dec 1996 22:03:15 +0800, in article <7floalwggs.fsf@phoenix.cs.hku.hk>, Lee Sau Dan ~{@nJX6X~} <sdlee@cs.hku.hk> wrote:
>>>>>> "Wing" == Wing C Ng <wing@lava.net> writes:
>
>    Wing> I think the b/p/p' differences are exaggerated: I speak
>    Wing> native Chinese (Cantonese), studied Mandarin at 6, studied
>    Wing> English at 8, and I had no idea that the English "b" was any
>    Wing> different from the Chinese "b" in pinyin = "p" in WG; I
>    Wing> thought they were identical.  Until I read books in
>    Wing> linguistic at about 19, then I notice the small difference.
>
>I have exactly the same experience, except that the ages are 12, 4 and
>20 instead of your 6, 8 and 19.

So do I (for ages that are about 16, 4, and 18, though the last is
actually irrelevant).

The turning point for me was, around 16, I started studying French, and
was thus forced to distinguish between p and b (because French p, as
taught in HK [as opposed to French as taught in Canada], is normally
unaspirated). Until then I had no idea how to a z would sound like.

>[...]   This  is because of  my former English
>teachers, who were unable to highlight the differences between the "b"
>and "p"s in the English words "peak", "speak" and "beak".  This may be
>because the teachers themselves,  having learnt thier English in  Hong
>Kong, were unable to notice the differences.

I think the matter is worse. One of my English teachers in HK, e.g.,
knows that there is a difference between p and p', but does not know
what that difference is. (She thought the p is "speak" is a b.)

And no, I am still not good at distinguishing between p and b.

-- 
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