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From: selvakum@valluvar.uwaterloo.ca (C.R. Selvakumar)
Subject: Re: Evolution, `progress', and language (was Re: "Out of India")
Sender: news@novice.uwaterloo.ca (Mr. News)
Message-ID: <E2vn6t.91z@novice.uwaterloo.ca>
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 17:28:05 GMT
References: <petrichE1KpAp.Bv7@netcom.com> <59kclc$6oc@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <59krrv$kh1@news.gte.com> <E2vKux.6yp@novice.uwaterloo.ca>
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In article <E2vKux.6yp@novice.uwaterloo.ca>,
C.R. Selvakumar <selvakum@valluvar.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>In article <59krrv$kh1@news.gte.com>, Dorai Sitaram <ds26@bunny.gte.com> wrote:
>>In article <59kclc$6oc@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu>,
>>Vidhyanath K. Rao <vidynath@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>[..]
>>place, here is the example you demanded.  It is a well-known
>>relative-clause braid from a children's story that I don't
>>remember exactly but that has the form: "This is the dog
>                                           ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>that chased the cat that drank the milk that spilled from
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>the jug that fell from the cupboard [that was] in the
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>kitchen [] in the house that Jack built."  (This is very
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>     intha nAy thuRaththiya andha poonai, Jack kattiya veeTTin 
>     aduKaLaiyil irundha  alamariyilE irundha saadiyil irundhu kottiya
>     paalai kudiththathu. :-)
>
>    
>     Now the meanings:
>
>     intha nAy thuRaththiya andha poonai, Jack kattiya veeTTin 
>     this  dog chase        that  cat     Jack built   house   
>  
>     aDuKaLaiyil irundha alamariyilE irundha saadiyil irundhu kottiya
>     kitchen     was (in)cupboard    (was)in jar      was (in)spilled
>
>     paalai kudiththathu. :-)
>     milk   drank

      I missed one phrase 'fell from (the cupboard)'
      and it can be easily added. Thus the sentence above can be
      modifified as follows: ( vizhundu = fell ( incomplete verbal fom))

      intha nAy thuRaththiya andha poonai, Jack kattiya veeTTu
      aduKaLai alamariyilE irundhu vizhudha saadiyil irundhu kottiya
      paalai kudiththathu. :-)



           I think it is possible to render the same sentence with
           different nuances in Tamil. 

       (1) intha nAy thuraththiya andha poonai kudiththa paal,
           Jack kattina veeTTu aDukkalai alamaariyilE irundhu vizhundha
           saadiyil irundhu koTTiyathu.

       (2) intha nAy thuraththuthE andha poonai kudiththa paal
           endha ssaadiyil irundhu koTTinathO, antha saadi
           Jack kaTTina veeTTu alamaariyilE irundhu vizhundhathu.

       (3) intha nAy thuraththuthE, andha poonai kudiththa, saadiyil irundhu
           koTTina paal endha aDukkalaiyin alamaariyilE irundhuthO, 
           andha aDukkaLai Jack kaTTina vEETil uLLathu.

       and so on. If the emphasis is to be on the dog, it can be
       arranged as well. For example. 

       Jack kaTTina veeTTu aDukkalaiyin alamaariyilE irudhu 
       saadi keezhE vizhudhu koTTIna paalai
       kudiththa poonaiyai thuraththiya naay ithE

       Here again many different nuances can be shown in Tamil.

       Selva
>
>     I've not indicated grammatical features. There are other ways of
>     rendering it as well ( for example : 'veeTTin aDukkaLaiyin alamAriyilE'
>     or as 'veeTTu adukkaLayin alamaariyilE' etc. instead of what is given)
>
>     I recall a discussion on the same topic a long time ago
>     in soc.culture.tamil.
>
>
>     Selva
>
>
>>
>>--d
>
>


