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From: deb5@harper.uchicago.edu (Daniel von Brighoff)
Subject: Re: Chinese dialects vs. Indoeuropean languages
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References: <DoI2ot.H8o@midway.uchicago.edu> <4insun$lcd@hagar.aspentec.com> <DoJunp.7Jz@midway.uchicago.edu> <4ipg4j$tl6@hagar.aspentec.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 06:00:03 GMT
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In article <4ipg4j$tl6@hagar.aspentec.com>,
Tak To <TTO@RANKIN.aspentec.com> wrote:
>In <DoJunp.7Jz@midway.uchicago.edu> deb5@ellis.uchicago.edu writes:

>> Funny, the subtitles I've seen pretty consistently transcribe every spoken
>> utterance.  And the same with the liner notes. 
>
>Even the narrative (i.e., non-utterance) parts?  Even the various particles,
>genitive markers, mood markers, interjections, etc?  (I don't doubt it but
>I am surprised.)

	As far as I can tell (not being a speaker of Cantonese).  Even
for long sentences, which go by too fast for me to read all the characters,
I can still match them to the spoken syllables.  The count almost always
comes out exactly the same.

>The subtitles are meant for non-Cantonese speakers.  I have noticed that
>in recent years, the subtitles have changed from being a Mandarin
>translation (or at least an attempt thereof) to being a full-fledged
>transcription; no doubt due to the increased self-confidence of the Cantonese
>speaking populace with the growth of the HK/South China economy.  I don't
>really know how non-Cantonese speakers feel about it; maybe they think
>the added faithfulness is worth the trouble.

I've noticed this too and I find it very puzzling.  After all, I would
expect that, if it's odd for a Cantonese speaker to read something 
written completely in Cantonese characters, it must be nigh impossible
for someone unfamiliar with spoken Cantonese.  Most of these movies seem
to end up dubbed in Mandarin, though, so I suppose it really doesn't matter.

>> I was wondering about Wu since even my compact Mandarin dictionary lists
>> several characters used exclusively for transcribing Wu words.  However,
>> I've never seen extensive passages in Wu and had no idea someone had 
>> written an entire novel in it.  Who is the author?
>
>I can't recall the author off-hand.  (My copy is buried somewhere in the
>pile of boxes in my basement.)  It was a pen name in the Classical style.
>If this helps: the full name is Hai3Shang4 [Sea-Above, a play on Shanghai]
>Hua1 [Flower, i.e.; courtesans] Lie4Chuan4 [Biography];  and it was first
>published early this century or late last century.  There was also a
>complete Mandarin translation 7-10 years ago by Chang1 Ai4Ling3.

Thanks very much.  I haven't found this yet, but I plan to keep searching.



-- 
	 Daniel "Da" von Brighoff    /\          Dilettanten
	(deb5@midway.uchicago.edu)  /__\         erhebt Euch
				   /____\      gegen die Kunst!
