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From: deb5@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Daniel von Brighoff)
Subject: Re: German postpositions [was Re: preposition->postpostion
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References: <521129981.180137108@troubbs.org> <44bdsg$kgq@bone.think.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 02:17:34 GMT
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In article <44bdsg$kgq@bone.think.com>, Daan Sandee <sandee@think.com> wrote:
>In article <521129981.180137108@troubbs.org> Miriam_Solon@troubbs.org writes:
>>I've noticed that it's a Chicago-Jewish thing to use "with" as a postposition,
>>as in:
>>
>>"Can I go with?"

If with is a true postposition here, where is its object?

Although some might be inclined to consider this a preposition with
an "understood" object (i.e. you [guys]), I would call it a verbal
complement (specifically, a verbal particle or adverb, depending on your
analysis), like "up" in "Shut up!" or "about" in "Will you stop mucking
about with that?"

>>Does that work back to Yiddish/German?
>
>This construct is common in German, and presumably in Yiddish.
>"Are you coming?" translates to "Gehst du mit?" or "Kommst du mit?".

You've actually heard German native speakers say "Gehst du mit?" for
"Are you coming?"?  Komisch...

>However, the specific example you give does not occur in German. It
>would be "Kann ich mitkommen?". I don't know about Yiddish, but I think
>it's most likely that a Yiddish construct was extended to other uses
>in Chicago-Jewish English.

There's nothing specifically Jewish about "Are you coming with?", at 
least not at present.  Although Chicago has accepted a lot of Jewish
settlers (both German- and Yiddish-speaking), other cities with high
Jewish settlement (e.g. New York) do not share this construction, and
despite the settlement of large numbers of Germans, neither do other 
American cities (like St. Louis, Philadelphia, etc.).  In fact, judging
from the comments of non-natives, the expression appears to be unique to
Chicago.


-- 
	 Daniel "Da" von Brighoff    /\          Dilettanten
	(deb5@midway.uchicago.edu)  /__\         erhebt Euch
				   /____\      gegen die Kunst!
