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From: stevens@galileo.pss.fit.edu (Luke Stevens)
Subject: Re: "gay" (was: Re: Gay Teenagers)
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References: <794198935snz@storcomp.demon.co.uk> <9503071227281404@election.demon.co.uk> <794599902snz@storcomp.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 18:03:36 GMT
Lines: 61

Phil Hunt (philip@storcomp.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> In article <9503071227281404@election.demon.co.uk>
>            david@election.demon.co.uk "David Boothroyd" writes:
> > >Wrong. One of the main attributes of English is that a word can
> > >be used in several grammar classes. So it is very common for an adjective 
> > >to be used as a noun, a noun as an adjective or verb, and a verb as a 
> > >noun. So it's perfectly OK grammatically to use "gay" as a noun; as is
> > >evident by the fact that most people, when they hear such usages, don't
> > >think there is something off about the grammar.
> > 
> > It is not technically correct. Gay is an adjective and the fact that some
> > people use it as a noun is irrelevant to this.
>
> Whether people use a word as a noun is irrelevant to whether it is a noun?
> Do you also think it's irrelevant that my dictionary says "gay" is a noun?

Call me a Latin-loving prescriptivist if you like <G>, but it seems natural
that adjectives be used as nouns through the use of substantives.  Latin does
this freely, and most Latin adjectives are also used as nouns in English.
English has a well established precedent for using substantives.  The great
peculiarity of English is that it tends not to have substantives in the
singular.  We have no objection to "Blessed are the poor," or "Kill the strong
and capture the weak," but it sounds bizarre and incorrect to say "I saw a
happy."  It is not even necessary for dictionaries to make separate indication
of the noun use of most adjectives because of this rule of substantives.  To
say "I saw a happy," instead of "I saw a happy person," seems logical, but 
it's just one of those annoying little quirks of the language that such a 
construction simply isn't done.  Along the same lines, "I met a gay," should
be a logical substitute for "I met a gay person," and if such can be said 
without resulting in puzzlement it is preferable <no pun on the original
meaning of "gay" intended>.  
 
  
> > Besides which and more importantly, gay men do not generally like people
> > to use gay as a noun.
>
> That's a more valid reason IMO for not using it as such.
>
> I wonder why, though? Possibly for the same reason (whatever that is)
> that people prefere being called "Jewish" to being called "a Jew".

Probably because we are so used to using adjectives as mere modifiers often to
be used in long lists, as "the short, fat, comical, friendly dentist", but a
noun is more often used alone as a complete identification of something, as "a
television".  When a person is referred to with a noun, he is placed in a
group of all such things, i.e. a stereotype.  Few people like to be 
stereotyped (except those egregiously worse than the group, but I'll not name
names).  OTOH, when an adjective is employed, it serves only as a description
rather than identification, so the sterotype tendency is much weaker.

I like to use correct constructions that annoy others just for the sake of the
opportunity to correct their understanding of English.  If a feminist gets mad
at me for calling her "he", "freshman", or "chairman", I know that I have 
centuries of precedent and agreement of experts on my side and can defend my
usage better than she can defend her objection to it.  


------_/ -------------  Luke J. Stevens  -------  stevens@pss.fit.edu  -------
  ___/`=        "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool
~(,__.)          than to speak out and remove all doubt."
 />  />                                     -- Abraham Lincoln
