Newsgroups: sci.lang
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!sun4nl!mcv
From: mcv@inter.NL.net (Miguel Carrasquer)
Subject: Re: German and French uvular 'r'
Message-ID: <Czsu5G.J5n@inter.NL.net>
Organization: NLnet
References: <3aqmis$1sk@nyx.cs.du.edu> <CzMv2v.EJI@inter.NL.net> <3b2n7s$d1e@mother.usf.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 01:15:16 GMT
Lines: 37

In article <3b2n7s$d1e@mother.usf.edu>,
Timothy Miller <millert@babbage.csee.usf.edu> wrote:
>It has been pointed out to me and demonstrated sufficiently that the 
>Arabig 'ghayn' is UVULAR.

I didn't know that, I just assumed it would be the voiced 
version of velar [x].

>However, I do believe that Modern Greek ghamma is velar.

Yes, as is Spanish intervocalic -g-.  The Spanish sound
has, however, much less friction than its voiceless counterpart
[x] (written j, ge/gi).

>
>What is the IPA symbol for a voiceless uvular fricative?  How about a 
>voiced uvular stop?

Greek chi [X] and small-caps G [G].

>
>In my study of German, I have yet to hear anyone pronounce a velar 
>fricative.  I hear dorso-palatal as in "i<ch>" and "wi<ch>ti<g>", and 
>uvular as in "do<ch>" and "ba<ch>".
>
>When I try to pronounce the uvular ones as velar, I have difficulty, due 
>to the environment around the consonant, while I never have any trouble 
>pronouncing Hebrew words with a purely velar fricative.
>

It's very easy to do if you pronounce German with a Dutch accent :-)


-- 
Miguel Carrasquer         ____________________  ~~~
Amsterdam                [                  ||]~  
mcv@inter.NL.net         ce .sig n'est pas une .cig 
