Newsgroups: sci.lang
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!rochester!udel!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!petrich
From: petrich@netcom.com (Loren Petrich)
Subject: Re: What are Scythians?
Message-ID: <petrichCzo1wq.FsB@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <rsavageCyt0CM.5L7@netcom.com> <3aen6l$g6b@pilot.njin.net> <sarimaCzJ9tp.n4C@netcom.com> <CzJsFu.9I4@inter.nl.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 11:14:50 GMT
Lines: 44

In article <CzJsFu.9I4@inter.nl.net>,
Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@inter.NL.net> wrote:

>It's always very hard to derive linguistic facts from pottery
>or building styles.  Troy II suggests a connection with the
>Balkans (Ezero culture), appr. 3000/2700 BC.  Mallory tentatively
>puts the "coming of the Greeks" at Early Helladic III (2200 BC).
>Our earliest records are from say 1700 BC for Hittite, a millennium 
>later, but I just don't think 500+500 years are enough to account 
>for the vast differences between Hittite and Greek.

	One way out:

	There was a split between the ancestors of Hittite and Greek well 
before that. The first incursions from the steppes into Southeastern 
Europe are in 4500 BCE, with the area being overrun by 3500 BCE. Some of 
these people could have gone on to Troy, and ultimately, the Hattusas 
area. Greek came later, most likely being derived from the Late Yamna 
culture which spread outwards from the steppes starting about 2500 BCE.

	So the split could have been as early as 3500 BCE -- plenty of time.

>I do not agree with Renfrew in deriving Anatolian directly from
>the C,atal-Hu"yu"k culture, but Greek toponyms like `Parnassos'
>certainly suggest a relationship between pre-Greek inhabitants
>of Greece and the Anatolians.  If there is Balkan connection, I
>would be more inclined to look at early/middle Neolithic cultures
>like Karanovo/Vinc^a.

	The -nth- and -ss- endings IMO most likely reflect some
non-Indo-European languages that the locals had spoken well before the
speakers of Hittite and Greek showed up. 

	I disagree with CR's identification of the IE speakers with the 
Neolithic farmers who spread across Europe from the Catal-Huyuk area, 
because there is the nagging question of the reconstructed IE vocabulary, 
which includes words for horses and wheeled vehicles, which were unknown 
to most of Neolithic Europe.

-- 
Loren Petrich, the Master Blaster
petrich@netcom.com                   Happiness is a fast Macintosh
lip@s1.gov                           And a fast train

