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From: mcv@inter.NL.net (Miguel Carrasquer)
Subject: Re: Frisian and Old English
Message-ID: <CxLq0n.3yE@inter.NL.net>
Organization: /etc/organization
References: <3779e7$14d@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <37cbh0INNjf8@uwm.edu> <CxHHqp.Bnq@inter.nl.net> <sarimaCxLFuK.5yq@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 07:55:34 GMT
Lines: 75

In article <sarimaCxLFuK.5yq@netcom.com>,
Stanley Friesen <sarima@netcom.com> wrote:
>In article <CxHHqp.Bnq@inter.nl.net>,
>Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@inter.NL.net> wrote:
>>
>>Cheese is `tsiis' in Frisian ...
>
>Which would be pronounced essentially the same as the English word,
>despite the difference in spelling.
>
>>"butter, brea en griene tsiis, wa't dat net sizze kin is gjin
>>oprjochte Fries" -- 
>
>Which dialect of Frisian?
>

(I should say I gave the phrase from memory: there might be errors
in it).

It's "Middle" Frisian (from the Dutch province of Friesland).
This has been called "West-Frisian" by some in this discussion,
which I find confusing: West-Frisia is the Northern portion of the
province of Noord-Holland, which was formerly Frisian speaking.
There is still a Frisian substrate in the local "Westfries"
*Dutch* dialect.

For the rest of Holland, Zeeland and West-Flanders, linguists
(e.g. van Bree's "Historische Grammatica van het Nederlands")
talk about an "Ingwaeonian" substrate.  I'd call it simply
Frisian.  Characteristics of "Ingwaeonian" are:
(From van Bree's book:)

1) vocabulary:

Du. dial. elder "udder", (also 'elder' in the English Midlands)
	(versus Du. 'uier')
Du. ladder "ladder" (versus E-Du. 'leer')
Du. wiel "wheel" (versus E-Du. 'rad', Ger. 'Rad')
Du. eiland "island" (versus Ger. 'Insel')
Du. big "pig" (versus Ger. Ferkel)

(Fries: [jaar], ljedder, [tsjil], eila^n, bigge)

2) phonology:

a>o 	in Du. dial. brocht, docht "brought", "thought" (versus Du. bracht, 
	dacht)
ai>a: 	in Du. dial. haam "home" (OE ha:m) (versus Du. heem, heim)
iu>ie 	in Du. dial. dier "dear" (vs. Du. duur)
eg>ei	Du. zeil "sail" (vs. Ger. Segel)
u>i/e	Du. dial pit/pet "pit" (vs. Du. put)
loss of nasal + lengthening before f/s/th, e.g. Du. vijf "five" (vs. Germ.
fuenf), Du. dial. mui(den) "mouth" (vs. Du. mond).
r-metathesis: Du. dial. ors "horse" (vs. Du. ros, from German).
fronting of aa in West-Dutch dialects: slaepen "sleep" (vs. Du. slapen)

(Fries: brocht, stien "stone" [?], [doer], seil, bre^ge "bridge", fiif, ?,
sliepe)

3) morphology

Plurals in -s (more common in Dutch than German, and more common in
Western dialects than elsewhere)
Pronouns: only one oblique form; Du. mij "me" (vs. Ger. "mir, mich"),
Middle Dutch di "thee" (Ger. "dir, dich").  No reflexive pronoun:
(Du. "zich" is recent loan from German): Middle Dutch "hij wast hem" 
(Du. "hij wast zich"), "he washes him(self)".  2nd pl. pron. in j-: 
Du. jij/jou "you"

(Fries shares most of this with Dutch).

-- 
Miguel Carrasquer         ____________________  ~~~
Amsterdam                [                  ||]~  
mcv@inter.NL.net         ce .sig n'est pas une .cig 
