Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
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From: vos@dutiws.twi.tudelft.nl (E.W.C. de Vos)
Subject: Re: Is CONSCIOUSNESS continuous? discrete? quantized?
References: <departedD3vKy5.M3B@netcom.com> <D584q5.Mqu@ucc.su.OZ.AU> <3k1knq$mqg@oznet03.ozemail.com.au> <D5Ev75.n49@ucc.su.oz.au>
Organization: Delft University of Technology
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 16:24:11 GMT
Message-ID: <D5qywC.ED5@dutiws.twi.tudelft.nl>
Lines: 73

In article <D5Ev75.n49@ucc.su.oz.au>, Vic Cinc <vicc@ucc.su.oz.au> wrote:
>Alan Tonisson (tonisson@ozemail.com.au) wrote:
>: vicc@ucc.su.oz.au (Vic Cinc) wrote:
>: > Tom E.J. Gruintjes (grintjes@sci.kun.nl) wrote:
>: > : You wrote :
>: > : "if consciousness is an epiphenomena of the brains neural net. then what
>: > : is so special about this bit of software that make it conscious
>: > : and the software under silicon apparently not?"
>[snip]
>: > : So in fact your analogy silicon vs. brain doesn't hold for solving the
>: > : conscious-problem, to my opinion.
>: > 
>: > it doesnt follow that consciousness is simply modifying the undeneath
>: > hardware. a computer program changes its state continuesly as well.
>: > just because the neural net is in a state of flux, doesnt make the conditions
>: > for consciousness.
>: How can we know that silicon isn't conscious?  Some Eastern religions
>: maintain that all matter has degrees of consciousness.
>while this is an interesting point of view, what does it mean??
>and more to the point how can we tell?

Or more relevant: Why do we care? Turn this thing around (like we all seem to
be doing one time or another here): Is a neuron conscious?
Does a neuron know it's 'there'? Does it 'feel', does it 'sense'? If so,
can we describe it in full? If so, can we simulate it? If so, can we link
a few simulated neurons together? If so, can we create a small brain-like
tissue? If so, is this simulated tissue conscious, whatever that means.

Does anyone know what conscious means? Webster tells us it's:
1. con. scious \'ka: n-ch*s\ aj [L conscius, fr. com- + scire to know] archaic 1: sharing
another's knowledge or awareness of an inward state or outward fact 2: perceiving,
apprehending, or noticing with a degree of controlled thoug ht or observation 3:
subjectively perceived {~ guilt} 4: capable of or marked by thought, will, design, or
perception 5: SELF-CONSCIOUS 6: having mental faculties undulled by sleep, faint, or
stupor : AWAKE 7: done or acting with critical awareness - con. scious.ly av 
2. conscious n : CONSCIOUSNESS 

This doesn't help us any further... When we talk about consciousness, we
should define consciousness.  I don't think we can. It's completely subjective.
Something could be conscious, while we consider it not. Or the other way
around.

Still, the question wether silicon is conscious is as relevant as the question
'Is one neuron conscious?'...

Now, if matter has consciousness, we could value one neuron as having a
consciousness level of one. (just for the sake of the argument!)
Two neurons linked together would have a higher level of consciousness.
Three even higher. Now, apart from the amount of neurons, the way they are
linked also determines the level of consciousness. When the amount of 
links increase, the level of consciousness increases. Add the sensory 
neurons with another certain amount (a sensory neuron is more 
'conscious' then others) (just a suggestion) and we get a 
conscious-level which is a bit more complicated.

All of this could be wiped away with the argument that things have 
only two states: conscious and not-conscious, and there's no gliding 
scale whatsoever. Still, I think this is not the case. Plants have 
some very low state of consciousness. Insects have a higher level. 
Mammals a far higher one. I think there _is_ a gliding scale, and 
humans are very high on that (terrestrial-based) consciousness scale.

Any comments are welcome, of course!

Eelko
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