Newsgroups: comp.ai.alife,comp.ai.philosophy,comp.ai,alt.consciousness
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!rochester!cornell!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!udel!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.isi.edu!gremlin!charming!mcohen
From: mcohen@charming.nrtc.northrop.com (Martin Cohen)
Subject: Re: Thought Question
Message-ID: <D4sEqG.KLB@gremlin.nrtc.northrop.com>
Sender: news@gremlin.nrtc.northrop.com (Usenet News Manager)
Organization: Northrop Grumman Automation Sciences Laboratory, Pico Rivera, CA
References: <departedD4HIr4.4Ir@netcom.com> <3ilku4$hip@news.u.washington.edu> <departedD4J4EG.Gvn@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 00:30:15 GMT
Lines: 46
Xref: glinda.oz.cs.cmu.edu comp.ai.alife:2643 comp.ai.philosophy:25822 comp.ai:27864

In article <departedD4J4EG.Gvn@netcom.com> departed@netcom.com (just passing through) writes:
>In article <3ilku4$hip@news.u.washington.edu>,
>Gary Forbis  <forbis@cac.washington.edu> wrote:

........................

>
>What I'm maintaining is that the pain felt _IS_ a sort of very immediate
>attaching-meaning to pain.  The common use of 'having meaning' probably
>happens a few levels further on, attaching meaning to the meaning attached
>to .. the meaning attached to the signal.
>You would disagree, I believe, and say that the pain _IS_ pain, of itself,
>and there we must simply disagree, I suppose.
>
>>|> Pain is the existence of pain (meaningless)
>>
>>Pain is a feeling just as red is a color.
>
>Ah, that's a tempting point of view.  I sincerely believe that that's just
>the result of being conscious several levels above the hierarchical layer 
>where pain is first construed as a feeling.  But it's intuitively appealing!
>Still, out of context, it won't be pain ... (I know, you disagree.)
>
>Try this on:  why do you feel pain _more_ when you are helpless?  How can
>you feel anguish (just as immediately!) at someone else's suffering?
>Pain is not just your pain, not just this thing ... a lot of things (unexpected
>from your worldview) can alter pain, which I believe you're trying to say
>exists in isolatio.
>

................

>
>

A minor question - How does the existence of people who do not
feel physical pain (and they do exist) but can feel emotional
pain and anguish (and, possibly, people who are the other
way around (psychopaths?)) affect this discussion?

IMWTK

-- 
Marty Cohen (mcohen@nrtc.northrop.com) - Not the guy in Philly
  This is my opinion and is probably not Northrop Grumman's!
          Use this material of your own free will
