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From: mwd@cray.com (Mark Dalton)
Subject: Re: Thought Question - oops!
Message-ID: <1995Jan7.070330.27617@walter.cray.com>
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Date: 7 Jan 95 07:03:30 CST
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In article <45@reservoir.win-uk.net> you wrote:

: Yup! Actually, in my original post I made a slight booboo for which
: I apologise. I said about the brain being regarded as a computer,
: when I meant to say about it being accurately simulable by a
: computer. Sorry for any misunderstanding! 

: Oh yes, and I do reckon that brain=mind. I'll explain in a bit...

: OK - this is where the point is being missed. At the most basic
: level, which is the one I'm talking about, the hardware & software
: are *indistinguishable*. The brain's software consists of synapse
: strengths & electrical excitation, whereas the computer's is in
: electronic form, but down among the electrons, it all becomes
: hardware, if you get my meaning. As for the brain's 'program', a
: lot of that is emergent from development, and subject to natural
: selection.  

: The algorithms I was talking about are inherent physical laws,
: though I take your point above. At the next level up, say the
: neuronal, they *did* evolve. 

To me this changes things completely.

If Brain=Mind, then you cannot really talk about 'simulating the
brain' or talking about the 'brain' as a computer.  This gets into
the whole question of the differences between 'a brain' and 'mind'.

	Animals have brains, but I wouldn't say (others may disagree)
that they have a mind.

(Disclaimer: I am not a neurologist, but this is the basic ideas
             from what I know.  I am sure others could expand).

Just of for the Brain and the body (What would affect a dog)?
	1. Do you want to consider the rest of the bodies affect?
	2. Other stimuli/senses do you want to allow?
	3. What associations it has with that image?
		- When you have a frisbee
		 versus
		- The mean guy that hits his dog with a stick.
		  That dog will often be frightened if you clench a stick.
		?? How does this differ from emotions, perhaps
		   it is a 'primitive' emotion, I don't know ??
	4. The above will affect hormone/neural trasmitter levels
	   in the Brain.
	5. Feed back loops on various homone levels will feed back to
	   the brain from multiple levels.
	6. Each system in the body affects the brain, and vice versa.

So in order to real simulate just a brain (not getting into the difference
between that and the mind), you would really need to simulate the entire
body and external world.  (Otherwise, it seems to me, that you would be
just simulating a chunk of matter, rock, plastic, a dead person).

Any comments, it just how it seems to me.

Mark
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Mark Dalton       CH3-S-CH2 H                      H      O       H
Cray Research,Inc.      |   |                      |       \      |
Los Alamos,NM 87544     CH2-C-COO    //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO    C-CH2-C-COO
mwd@cray.com                |       |  ||   ||     |       //     |
                            NH3      \\/ \ / CH    NH3    O       NH3
                                          NH
URL = http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html

