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From: pindor@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Andrzej Pindor)
Subject: Re: What is Free Will????
Message-ID: <CxBC2w.DHA@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>
Organization: UTCC Public Access
References: <space1CwHoKM.9F1@netcom.com> <36ubmj$49l@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> <Cx9Fx9.3E3@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca> <3721ts$skr@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 17:18:32 GMT
Lines: 60

In article <3721ts$skr@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>,
Eli Balin <elibalin@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
>In article <Cx9Fx9.3E3@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>,
>Andrzej Pindor <pindor@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>In article <36ubmj$49l@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>,
>>Eli Balin <elibalin@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
...........
>>>Genes have nothing to do with our mental processes, upon which free will 
>>>is dependant.
>>
>>How do you know this? By definition or by fiat?
>
>Do you mean to tell me you think our thoughts and actions are 
>predetermined by our genetic ancestry?  

I did not mean to tell you what I am thinking but asked for clarification.
Can you provide it?

>                              .........This idea has been used to 
>justify some of the worst atrocities of the past several centuries (i.e. 
>Spanish Inquisition, Holocaust, activities of 19th century colonial 
>powers in Africa).  

Idea of equality has been used in Cambodia not so long ago to justify 
killing off few millions of people (in S.U. too). Does this disqualify 
the idea?

>        .......... Besides which, it is patently ridiculous.  I think 

This may be a good argument at a dinner party but not here.

>very differently from my father, who thinks differently from his, and so 
>on.  Likewise, my actions have had absolutely nothing to do with those of 
>any of my predecessors.  

Really? You do not search for food, sex, shelter, company of others like 
you, do not care for your offsprings, much the same way as your predecessors 
did? That your predecessors might have joined a circle around a fire
in search for company and you switch on your workstation and type 'rn'<CR>,
these are irrelevant details. Try to think how much time every day you spend
on activities which in essence are related to satisfying needs programed into
your genes to ensure their survival. Which of your actions do you think do
not relate to ensuring the survival of your genes? How are you sure that 
what gives us pleasure and what not is not coded in our genes? 

>       .................How do you feel you can justify our genes as 
>"controlling" us?  I sure as hell am not about to let a few protein 
>sequences tell me what to do!

And who is this "me"? Is this "me" not a consequence of "a few protein
sequences" ? Unless you are of course a dualist, look then at the thread
about "mind stuff" if you are not aware of the contradictions it brings
about.
 
Andrzej
-- 
Andrzej Pindor                        The foolish reject what they see and 
University of Toronto                 not what they think; the wise reject
Instructional and Research Computing  what they think and not what they see.
pindor@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca                           Huang Po
