From newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!ists!generic.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!uunet!think.com!samsung!infinet!sena Tue Nov 19 11:08:51 EST 1991
Article 1178 of comp.ai.philosophy:
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>From: sena@infinet.UUCP (Fred Sena)
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
Subject: Re: MIND, BRAIN, CONCIOUSNESS
Message-ID: <2794@infinet.UUCP>
Date: 31 Oct 91 22:41:00 GMT
References: <1991Oct29.214816.23349@timessqr.gc.cuny.edu>
Reply-To: sena@infinet.UUCP (Fred Sena)
Organization: Infinet, Inc.  North Andover, MA
Lines: 79

In article <1991Oct29.214816.23349@timessqr.gc.cuny.edu> las@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu writes:
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>Having been trained as a mathematician I feel very inclined
>to ask for a defenition of what is meant by the following terms:
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>a) mind
>b) brain
>c) conciousness.
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>I once asked a Zen master this question. First he laughed at me, and
>then he said:
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>"Brain happens to conciousness. Mind happens to brain after brain is
>happening to conciousness". I smiled and thanked him. you can 
>imagine how I felt.  Does this make sense to any of you? I would 
>appreciate an  honest reply. I know that Zen masters are notorious
>for not making sense.


OK, here's my shot.

I think that "Brain happens to consciousness" means "The brain spontaneously
moves into the cousciousness 'state'".  Also, it was probably implied that
there was no separation between the body and brain here.

Once the brain enters a conscious 'state', the concept of mind is created in
that the person recognizes themself as an 'I' separate from the universe and
exclaims "I am".  Once the person is, the person can have the concept of what
a mind is as being part of the self that "thinks", and at that point has a
mind now as a part of myself.  It's one of the many ways that the universe is
broken up into parts by consciousness.

Althought I don't believe that Zen can be explained, I think that I will try
anyways...

>From what I can see (right now), I think that the purpose of Zen is to
challenge all of the ways that consciousness divides up the universe into
"objects" with separate identities until the person finally knows (notice
that I did not say "thinks") no separate experience of self vs the universe
and experiences a state where they experience the universe directly as the
generation of the mind (or brain, or life, or just "being").  That may be
taken one step further where they are one with the universe because all of
the universe has a kind of consciousness inherently.

The implication is that all products of the universe that the person knows of
are all impressions generated by the mind.  Also, Zen is not something you
are, Zen is something that is done.  Many people cannot accept that the
sensation of everything is a product of the mind.  I'm not sure why some
people can not accept this concept.  It's as if they have an existential
problem with "Where does the universe go when I die?"

I have a great book called "Zen To Go", which is full of Zen quotes from
easterners and westerners.  One quote from the book that I think applies here
is:

  "I think I think; therefore, I think I am."
						- Ambrose Bierce


You think you have a mind, and you think that you have a history, and you
think that there is a world, but the fact is that is that "you are! now!" and
that is all there is to it.

To end this, I would like to add one more quote:

  "We should take care not to make the intellect our god;  it has, of course,
   powerful muscles, but no personality"
						- Albert Einstein

	--fred
-- 
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Frederick J. Sena                sena@infinet.UUCP
Memotec Datacom, Inc.  N. Andover, MA
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." - Pablo Picasso


