\begindata{text822, 0}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/0fForje00Udc44=04Y>;
          Sun,  3 Jan 1993 15:35:00 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q000/QF.0fFomt600UddJAWU5I>;
          Sun,  3 Jan 1993 15:29:47 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA19581@X> for info-andrew; Sun, 3 Jan 93 15:29:32 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA13012; Sun, 3 Jan 93 12:22:55 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 3 Jan 93 18:31:46 GMT
From: panix!miner@nyu.edu  (Ed Miner)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Subject: How do I set margins in EZ
Message-Id: <1993Jan3.183146.17471@panix.com>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

Hello,

Can anyone tell me how can I set the top and bottom margins within EZ?
Also how can i find a list of .troff commands? to use.



thanks in advance,

ed
\enddata{text822, 0}
\begindata{text822, 1412}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/cfFsYYu00UdbEDL05Q>;
          Sun,  3 Jan 1993 19:47:33 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q000/QF.YfFsY4:00UdcM5qk4n>;
          Sun,  3 Jan 1993 19:47:04 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.EfFsWRm00UdbMDJE4R>;
          Sun,  3 Jan 1993 19:45:20 -0500 (EST)
Received: from phantom.cislabs.pitt.edu by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA03920@X> for info-andrew; Sun, 3 Jan 93 19:45:04 EST
Received: by phantom.cislabs.pitt.edu (4.1/1.34)
	id AA27255; Sun, 3 Jan 93 19:44:50 EST
From: qralston@cislabs.pitt.edu (James Ralston Crawford)
Message-Id: <9301040044.AA27255@phantom.cislabs.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: National characters in texts
To: agate!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!Germany.EU.net!Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE!tommy!klute@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Rainer Klute)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 19:44:49 -0500 (EST)
Cc: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <1hsuv5INN4b1@fbi-news.Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE> from "Rainer Klute" at Dec 30, 92 07:57:25 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 727       

Rainer Klute writes:

> I just installed some basic parts of the Andrew system (namely
> messages) on a Sun IPC (running SunOS 4.1.1) under X11R5, patchlevel
> 20. What annoys me is that typing a national character (i. e. a
> German umlaut) in, say, ez crashes the application.

	Same thing for:

Sun SS-670MP, SunOS 4.1.2, X11R5 PL17
Sun IPX, SunOS 4.1.2, X11R5 PL17
Sun IPC, SunOS 4.1.2, X11R5 PL17

	I need to recompile Andrew here, so I might see if tweaking
various compiling options might change anything.

James

-- 
James Ralston Crawford \ Assistant Supervisor \ Advanced Technology Lab
qralston@cislabs.pitt.edu \ qralston+@pitt.edu \ qralston@pittvms.bitnet
"but you'll have to do it yourself" - SunOS error message
\enddata{text822, 1412}
\begindata{text822, 3781}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/0fG0X1a00Ui3QHPk4U>;
          Mon,  4 Jan 1993 04:52:01 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.ofG0VyO00Udb8O2E5I>;
          Mon,  4 Jan 1993 04:50:54 -0500 (EST)
Received: from bernina.ethz.ch by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA06660@X> for info-andrew; Mon, 4 Jan 93 04:50:48 EST
Received: from neptune by bernina.ethz.ch with SMTP inbound id <24511-0@bernina.ethz.ch>; Mon, 4 Jan 1993 10:50:35 +0100
Received: from a (a-gw) by neptune id AA15873; Mon, 4 Jan 93 10:50:30 +0100
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 10:50:28 +0100
From: Niklaus Gerhard Ruess <nruess@iiic.ethz.ch>
Message-Id: <9301040950.AA19497@a>
Received: from a15 by a id AA19497; Mon, 4 Jan 93 10:50:28 +0100
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: rasters


Hi there, 
I'm working on a converter for ATK format and RTF. So I'm interested in the
datastream of raster objects. Somewhere I read that the format is described in
the file itc/be2/raster/rasterspec.d . I can't find this file on my disk.
Do you know any location where I can get it with ftp?

I tried to include rasters made with MacPaint 2.0. I couldn't load them into 
an ATK document made by EZ. It always said that the file is not in MacPaint
format. Do you have any idea what's wrong here?

I'm working with EZ version 7.0 and ATK 5.1.

Thanks for taking your time.

Niklaus Ruess
\enddata{text822, 3781}
\begindata{text822, 5518}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/0fG6Cyq00Ui3A:XE4f>;
          Mon,  4 Jan 1993 11:20:14 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q003/QF.wfG6=HC00Udd4n=U5Q>;
          Mon,  4 Jan 1993 11:16:24 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA13092@X> for info-andrew; Mon, 4 Jan 93 11:16:06 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA10434; Mon, 4 Jan 93 08:08:44 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 4 Jan 93 15:46:46 GMT
From: agate!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!unidui!rrz.uni-koeln.de!Germany.EU.net!Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE!tommy!klute@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Rainer Klute)
Organization: CS Department, Dortmund University, Germany
Subject: Re: National characters in texts
Message-Id: <1i9m56INNah0@fbi-news.Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE>
References: <wfEnMBK00WoiQIG1pY@andrew.cmu.edu>, <wfEnStG00WoiMIG2hW@andrew.cmu.edu>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

In article <wfEnStG00WoiMIG2hW@andrew.cmu.edu>, rr2b+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU
(Robert Andrew Ryan) writes:
|> Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 30-Dec-92 National characters
|> in texts Rainer Klute@ucbvax.Berk (642)
|> 
|> > What annoys me is that typing a national character (i. e. a German
|> > umlaut) in, say, ez crashes the application. Is this regarded as
|> usual
|> > behavior, could it be due to my unusual installation, or did I miss
|> > anything in the documentation?
|> 
|> This is certainly not normal behavior.  Which version of Andrew are you
|> using?  (5.1 is the latest public release)  Check that
|> $ANDREWDIR/lib/compchar exists and contains the single readable file
|> comps.    It should start out like below...

I am using Andrew 5.1, and $ANDREWDIR/lib/compchar/comps looks fine.
Meanwhile I gathered some disk space and built the Andrew configuration:
same behaviour. I just started another built with MK_BASIC_UTILS defined in
order to get this console application.

-- 
  Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute      klute@irb.informatik.uni-dortmund.de
  Univ. Dortmund, IRB
  Postfach 500500         |)|/    Tel.: +49 231 755-4663
D-W4600 Dortmund 50       |\|\    Fax : +49 231 755-2386
\enddata{text822, 5518}
\begindata{text822, 8239}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 1447;andrew.cmu.edu;Gary Keim
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/wfG7OBa00Woh19a04C>;
          Mon,  4 Jan 1993 12:40:29 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr13/gk5g/.Outgoing/QF.ofG7NWK00WohMzdGNJ>;
          Mon,  4 Jan 1993 12:39:47 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Mon,  4 Jan 1993 12:39:46 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <cfG7NWC00Woh8zdGEA@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Mon,  4 Jan 1993 12:39:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Gary Keim <gk5g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 717+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: How do I set margins in EZ
CC: bb+org.itc.atk.ia-trail@andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <1993Jan3.183146.17471@panix.com>
References: <1993Jan3.183146.17471@panix.com>

\begindata{text,538802180}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from netnews.comp.soft-sys.andrew: 3-Jan-93 How do 
I set margins in EZ Ed Miner@panix.com (160)}


\quotation{Can anyone tell me how can I set the top and bottom margins within 
EZ?

}\quotation{Also how can i find a list of .troff commands? to use.

}
To edit styles, choose the 'Edit Styles' item on the 'File' menu card.  This 
will bring up a lookz window.  The bad news is that I don't believe there is a 
facility for setting the top and bottom margins.  


The good news is that you can embed raw troff at any location in the document. 
 Just type in the troff code, select that code and choose the 'FormatNote' 
item on the 'Region' menu card.  


The troff will take affect when the document is printed.


Gary Keim

Andrew Consortium

\enddata{text,538802180}

\enddata{text822, 8239}
\begindata{text822, 10333}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po2.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/ofG9UVK00Uda13w04Q>;
          Mon,  4 Jan 1993 15:03:45 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q003/QF.ofG9Shu00UdbIb:U5q>;
          Mon,  4 Jan 1993 15:01:52 -0500 (EST)
Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA10013@X> for info-andrew; Mon, 4 Jan 93 15:01:39 EST
Via: uk.ac.hull.cs.nebula; Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:01:08 +0000
From: "K.K.Akosa" <csug3kka@cs.hull.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 20:00:23 GMT
Message-Id: <22845.9301042000@cs.hull.ac.uk>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: RE ADEW applications

I am trying to create a hypertext authoring environment using ATK. 
As I didn't have much time to read through NSB's book on Creating Applicatioins with ATK I decided to use ADEW. I created the layout I required but have been unable to use createcon to produce the controller code. Could anyone
please tell me what I should do to get creatcon to produce the code for me.

Here is exactly what happens '

csug3kka@biffy.24--> ls
Imakefile       ez3             input           out
ez2             ez3.CKP         make
csug3kka@biffy.25--> createcon ez2 
Creating a controller for ez2. Please wait...
running awk -f /usr/local/other/andrew/lib/arbiters/conpros.awk ez2
awk: funcs is not an array
 record number 354
Moving .ch to .ch.old
Merging in new info to create .ch
Moving .c to .c.old
Merging in new info to create .c
Done
csug3kka@biffy.26--> 

I have uuencoded the file ez2 and included it below this message
begin 600 ez2
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1=&%[;'-E="PQ-#8P,#0X?0H^
 
end

------ If anyone running ATK on Sun4 can run createcon on this file I would be very pleased if they could send me the .c and .ch files it creates.
My email address is either
csug3kka@cs.hull.ac.uk OR kka2@seq.hull.ac.uk

Thanks in advance.
Kofi K. Akosa
Computer Science Dept., Hull University.
\enddata{text822, 10333}
\begindata{text822, 19878}
Return-path: <kevin@ctp.com>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/QfG:aRK00Udb0icE4s>;
          Mon,  4 Jan 1993 16:18:21 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ctp.com (toon.ctp.com) by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA11930@X> for susan+; Mon, 4 Jan 93 16:18:05 EST
Received: from pebbles.ctp.com by ctp.com (4.1/3.1.090690-Cambridge Technology Partners)
	id AA27404; Mon, 4 Jan 93 16:21:53 EST
Received: from localhost by pebbles.ctp.com (16.8/DA.WS.1.0.5)
	id AA26043; Mon, 4 Jan 93 16:15:34 -0500
Message-Id: <9301042115.AA26043@pebbles.ctp.com>
To: Susan Straub <susan+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: andrew patch level 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 04 Jan 1993 15:12:29 -0500.
             <8fG9chm00WofE0a0UI@andrew.cmu.edu> 
Organization: Cambridge Technology Partners
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 16:15:33 -0500
From: Kevin O'Connor <kevin@ctp.com>


Susan,

Thank-you for your response.  Actually I did gt the source from emsworth... 

I am now having some troubles compiling.  I am in the atk subtree in the table
directory.  I am failing on the doindex call on 'table.do'.  Here is a post I
made to comp.soft-sys.andrew.  Do you have any suggestions?

 I am trying to compile ATK 5.1 on an HP9000/817 running HP-UX 8.02.  In
atk/table doindex is failing to create an index for table.do.  The index for
spread.do is created fine.

 Following is an exerpt from the make log.
- ---------
	rm -f table.o
        cc -c  +O2 -I.  -I/home/xx/kevin/andrew/include/atk -I/home/xx/kevin
/andrew/include -I//usr/local/include +z -W p,-H500000  table.c
        rm -f eval.o
        cc -c  +O2 -I.  -I/home/xx/kevin/andrew/include/atk -I/home/xx/kevin
/andrew/include -I//usr/local/include +z -W p,-H500000  eval.c
        rm -f tabio.o
        cc -c  +O2 -I.  -I/home/xx/kevin/andrew/include/atk -I/home/xx/kevin
/andrew/include -I//usr/local/include +z -W p,-H500000  tabio.c
        rm -f funs.o
        cc -c  +O2 -I.  -I/home/xx/kevin/andrew/include/atk -I/home/xx/kevin
/andrew/include -I//usr/local/include +z -W p,-H500000  funs.c
        /home/xx/kevin/andrew/bin/makedo  -d /home/xx/kevin/andrew/lib -b /h
ome/xx/kevin/andrew/bin -o table.do  table.o eval.o tabio.o funs.o
	/home/xx/kevin/andrew/bin/doindex table.do
doindex: indexing table.do ...
doload: error loading table.do from table.do
          errno 215
doindex: NULL entrypoint from table.do...program terminated!
- ---------

 There were no errors or warnings in the compiles as the exerpt indicates.  
Is this a symptom of the HP shared lib problem?  Is it a problem that position
independent code is not compiled?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              |        | Why we are here:
Kevin G. O'Connor             |  /\/\  | To tremble at the terrible beauty
Cambridge Technology Partners | / /_.\ | of the stars, to shed a tear at
kocon@ctp.com                 | \  /./ | the perfection of Beethoven's
+1 617-374-8286               |  \/\/  | symphonies, and to crack a cold
                              |        | one now and then. - D. Letterman
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
\enddata{text822, 19878}
\begindata{text822, 23201}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/EfG=kxa00UdcQ:q09E>;
          Mon,  4 Jan 1993 17:37:49 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.0fG=jpC00UddA8KU4r>;
          Mon,  4 Jan 1993 17:36:37 -0500 (EST)
Received: from monster.umd.edu by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA02125@X> for info-andrew; Mon, 4 Jan 93 17:36:20 EST
Received: by monster.umd.edu id AA12873
  (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu); Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:35:00 -0500
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.monster.umd.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.monster.umd.edu.rs_aix31;
          Mon,  4 Jan 1993 17:34:59 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <gfG=iHs00k00JQTmt9@monster.umd.edu>
Date: Mon,  4 Jan 1993 17:34:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Stephan Greene <greene@monster.umd.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 1092+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: National characters in texts
In-Reply-To: <1i9m56INNah0@fbi-news.Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE>
References: <wfEnMBK00WoiQIG1pY@andrew.cmu.edu>, <wfEnStG00WoiMIG2hW@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<1i9m56INNah0@fbi-news.Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE>

\begindata{text,538367304}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}


\quotation{What annoys me is that typing a national character (i. e. a German 
umlaut) in, say, ez

}\quotation{crashes the application.

}
I think this is the same problem that I encountered and fixed when I was 
working on an ISO keyboard in Sweden this summer (a DECstation, in that case). 
It occurs when you have a keyboard that sends 8-bit characters directly to the 
application, as opposed to your having mapped a key-sequence of 7-bit 
characters to self-insert an 8-bit character. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in 
this case the compchar package has nothing to do with it.


I went into the following files, and changed some "char" declarations to 
"unsigned char" and the problem was solved. I don't have the details handy, 
but the places to do it are pretty obvious. I would think you need to hit the 
SelfInsert routines in the txt*.c files at the very least. This may be 
overkill, but I made that change in these files:


bind.c

bind.ch

keymap.c

keymap.ch

txtcmds.c

txtvcmod.c


This was in ATK 5.0. I can dig up the files if anyone wants to diff them 
against newer versions.


Stephan Greene

University of Maryland

\enddata{text,538367304}

\enddata{text822, 23201}
\begindata{text822, 25952}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/IfGOnjC00UdZ87BE48>;
          Tue,  5 Jan 1993 10:44:47 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.UfGOl2G00UdbQDY04d>;
          Tue,  5 Jan 1993 10:41:56 -0500 (EST)
Received: from LOAN1.SP.CS.CMU.EDU by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA03979@X> for info-andrew+; Tue, 5 Jan 93 10:41:45 EST
Received: from BatMail.robin.v2.13.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.LOAN1.SP.CS.CMU.EDU.sun4.mach
          via MS.5.6.LOAN1.SP.CS.CMU.EDU.sun4_mach;
          Tue,  5 Jan 1993 10:41:23 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <sfGOkXy00gpmMzJ3gV@cs.cmu.edu>
Date: Tue,  5 Jan 1993 10:41:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Wilfred.Hansen@cs.cmu.edu
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>, Ed Miner <panix!miner@nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: How do I set margins in EZ
In-Reply-To: <1993Jan3.183146.17471@panix.com>
References: <1993Jan3.183146.17471@panix.com>

The package $ANDREWDIR/lib/tmac/tmac.atk defines several options
suitable for adjusting printed output layout.  For instance, the
initialization routine defines:

.nr PS \n(.p	\" pointsize
.nr VS \n(.v	\" linespacing
.nr HM 1i	\" header margin
.nr FM 1i	\" footer margin
.nr LL \n(.l	\" line length
.nr IN 36p	\" indent to allow outdenting headers
.nr LT \n(.l-\n(INu	\" title length

All of these can be adjusted with formatnotes in your document.
For instance, to set the top margin, put a line

.nr HM 1.5i

and mark it with the FormatNote style.
You can also copy tmac.atk and modify it.  To use the modified
version, add to your ~/preferences file a line like:

*.tmacfile: pathname/tmac.atk

substituting for <pathname> the path to your copy of tmac.atk.

Have fun,
Fred Hansen
\enddata{text822, 25952}
\begindata{text822, 27985}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 91;andrew.cmu.edu;Tom Neuendorffer
Received: from highland.itc.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/QfGQFLW00hYS4dT08s>;
          Tue,  5 Jan 1993 12:24:39 -0500 (EST)
Received: from highland.itc.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr20/tpn/.Outgoing/QF.kfGQByK00hYSFC7Fdv>;
          Tue,  5 Jan 1993 12:21:03 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.highland.itc.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.highland.itc.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Tue,  5 Jan 1993 12:21:02 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <YfGQByC00hYS5C7FU0@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Tue,  5 Jan 1993 12:21:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Tom Neuendorffer <tpn+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 913+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: "K.K.Akosa" <csug3kka@cs.hull.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: RE ADEW applications
CC: Wilfred.Hansen@cs.cmu.edu, Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <22845.9301042000@cs.hull.ac.uk>
References: <22845.9301042000@cs.hull.ac.uk>

\begindata{text,538701360}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 4-Jan-93 RE ADEW applications 
"K.K.Akosa"@cs.hull.ac.u (8573)}


\quotation{... 

I decided to use ADEW. I created the layout I required but have been unable to 
use createcon to produce the controller code

. ...

Creating a controller for ez2. Please wait...

}\quotation{running awk -f /usr/local/other/andrew/lib/arbiters/conpros.awk 
ez2

}\quotation{awk: funcs is not an array

}\quotation{ record number 354

}

Interesting, apparently you have a version of awk that considers the term 
'funcs' as a reserved word. Try changing your path to reference /bin/awk (or a 
link to it) before whatever version you are running. If you only have the one 
awk, try editing the file ' $ANDREWDIR/lib/arbiters/conpros.awk' (installed 
from the atk/adew directory) , replacing all of the instances of the words 
'funcs' with 'myfuncs', or some other name. 


Let me know how it goes, and what version of awk was giving you the problem.

	regards,

	Tom Neuendorffer

\enddata{text,538701360}

\enddata{text822, 27985}
\begindata{text822, 30329}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/4fGnVqa00Ui3M9=U49>;
          Wed,  6 Jan 1993 14:52:22 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.QfGnTVW00UddRTy05d>;
          Wed,  6 Jan 1993 14:49:53 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA24552@X> for info-andrew; Wed, 6 Jan 93 14:49:33 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA11533; Wed, 6 Jan 93 11:45:45 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 6 Jan 93 19:43:59 GMT
From: agate!manray.Berkeley.EDU!dglo@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Dave Glowacki)
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Subject: 5.1 on SunOS 4.1/4.1.2
Message-Id: <1ifcpvINNmmb@agate.berkeley.edu>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

I've tried building Andrew 5.1 on a Sun3 running SunOS 4.1 and on SPARC
machines running SunOS 4.1 and 4.1.2.

On all three systems, any use of 'doindex' fails with a message similar to

  doindex: indexing testobj.do ...dlopen: stub interception failed
  *** Abort - core dumped

Any idea what I'm doing wrong and how I can fix it?
-- 
Dave Glowacki                 dglo@cs.Berkeley.EDU                   UCBerkeley
\enddata{text822, 30329}
\begindata{text822, 32043}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/4fGv2c600Udb95qk4k>;
          Wed,  6 Jan 1993 23:25:12 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q000/QF.8fGuxUS00UddN5d04j>;
          Wed,  6 Jan 1993 23:19:46 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA17818@X> for info-andrew; Wed, 6 Jan 93 23:19:36 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA29703; Wed, 6 Jan 93 20:05:31 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 7 Jan 93 02:48:41 GMT
From: auspex-gw!guy@uunet.uu.net  (Guy Harris)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara
Subject: Re: 5.1 on SunOS 4.1/4.1.2
Message-Id: <16267@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
References: <1ifcpvINNmmb@agate.berkeley.edu>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

>  doindex: indexing testobj.do ...dlopen: stub interception failed
>  *** Abort - core dumped
>
>Any idea what I'm doing wrong and how I can fix it?

Make absolutely, positively, sure that you do !!!*NOT*!!! have "/lib" in
your LD_LIBRARY_PATH.  If you have it before "/usr/lib", it will cause
that very symptom; if you don't, it's superflous ("/lib" is just a
symbolic link to "/usr/lib" in SunOS 4.x).

Also, make sure that none of the Makefiles have "-L/lib" in them; that
can cause the same problem.

Also also, make sure they don't have "-L/usr/lib/" or anything such as
that in them, either - that one measly little extra "/" at the end can
*also* cause the same problem (it's a long story, but basically if any
program gets the "-ldl" library from anywhere other than a file with the
*exact* pathname "/usr/lib/libdl.so.1.0", you lose).
\enddata{text822, 32043}
\begindata{text822, 34196}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/EfH4W8:00Ui3E40E5V>;
          Thu,  7 Jan 1993 10:13:12 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q000/QF.sfH4T0O00UdbE:lk5i>;
          Thu,  7 Jan 1993 10:09:52 -0500 (EST)
Received: from bernina.ethz.ch by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA02754@X> for info-andrew; Thu, 7 Jan 93 10:09:45 EST
Received: from nessie by bernina.ethz.ch with SMTP inbound id <1209-0@bernina.ethz.ch>; Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:09:40 +0100
Received: by nessie.cs.id.ethz.ch; Thu, 7 Jan 93 16:09:36 +0100
From: caronni@nessie.cs.id.ethz.ch (Germano Caronni)
Message-Id: <9301071509.AA07435@nessie.cs.id.ethz.ch>
Subject: adew-clicklist - Problems
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 16:09:35 CET

Hi out there,
i am currently having some problems, to which I can not work out a
solution. Maybe you can help me ?

I have a clicklist-value, in which i insert a stirng-array, containing
some colons. As the font inside the table is always proportional,
and as I have not found any way to set the font or it's proportio-
nality, my colums will always be unaligned. (i cant use TAB)
Is there a possibility to set the font-style or the font itself ?
In Arb I can set a body-font, but this matters only for the title
of the clicklist-field, not for data which i assign later...

How can I let choose the user more than one entry of the clicklist
at the same time ? Is there a method where i can find a whole
selected range ? (And how can I find out, which button he uses to
click on the entries? I think there is something like this in the
valuev.ch - but I could not figure out how to let it work. It seems
that only inputs with the left mouse-button acutally cause a callback...

Advices of every kind are very welcome, so thanks you in advance :-))

Friendly greetings,

	Germano Caronni


-- 
Instruments register only through things they're designed to register.
Space still contains infinite unknowns.

Germano Caronni    caronni@nessie.cs.id.ethz.ch

\enddata{text822, 34196}
\begindata{text822, 36563}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/MfH6VTe00UddEygk5a>;
          Thu,  7 Jan 1993 12:29:03 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.ofH6Sx:00Ui346sk5t>;
          Thu,  7 Jan 1993 12:26:27 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <Added.IfH6SwO00Ui306rk9_@andrew.cmu.edu>
Received: from relay.MOD.UK by po4.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA01753@X> for INFO-ANDREW; Thu, 7 Jan 93 12:26:06 EST
Received: from hermes.mod.uk by relay.MOD.UK   via PSS with NIFTP  id aa01333;
          7 Jan 93 15:10 WET
Date:           Thu, 7 Jan 93  17:23 GMT
From: Mark Templeton 07-Jan-1993 1721 <"HERMES::CAERCN::druid%hermes.mod.uk"@relay.MOD.UK>
To: INFO-ANDREW <@relay.MOD.UK:INFO-ANDREW@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject:        Patches for andrew

Have there been patches/updates for Andrew, since the CDROM release?
I seem to remember hearing about some, but I cannot find any on
the Imperial College info-server.

	Regards,
		Mark.
                           0   00000000   0
                         0      0    0      0
                       0 0      0    0      0 0
                     0   0      0    0      0   0
                   0 0   0      0    0      0   0 0
                     0   0      0    0      0   0
                     0                          0
                     0        The Druid         0
                                alias
                           Mark D Templeton

B1013                Internet  : Mark.Templeton%hermes.mod.uk@relay.mod.uk
RSRE(S)              Janet     : Mark.Templeton@hermes.mod.uk
St Andrews Road
Malvern              Internal  : druid@caercn
Worcestershire
WR14 3PS                Phone UK  : 0684-892733 x2109
United Kingdom       Phone Intl: +44-684-892733 x2109
\enddata{text822, 36563}
\begindata{text822, 38653}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 1447;andrew.cmu.edu;Gary Keim
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/4fH7IcO00WohNOt05V>;
          Thu,  7 Jan 1993 13:23:36 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr13/gk5g/.Outgoing/QF.gfH7I0W00WohAsAFQ5>;
          Thu,  7 Jan 1993 13:22:57 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Thu,  7 Jan 1993 13:22:56 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <MfH7I0C00WohAsAFIW@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Thu,  7 Jan 1993 13:22:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Gary Keim <gk5g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 373+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Patches for andrew
In-Reply-To: <Added.IfH6SwO00Ui306rk9_@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <Added.IfH6SwO00Ui306rk9_@andrew.cmu.edu>

\begindata{text,538668640}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from misc: 7-Jan-93 Patches for andrew Mark T. 
07-Jan-1993@rela (981)}


\quotation{Have there been patches/updates for Andrew, since the CDROM 
release?

}\quotation{I seem to remember hearing about some, but I cannot find any on

}\quotation{the Imperial College info-server.

}
The next public release will be included on the contrib portion of X11R6 about 
a year from now.


Gary Keim

Andrew Consortium

\enddata{text,538668640}

\enddata{text822, 38653}
\begindata{text822, 40377}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 91;andrew.cmu.edu;Tom Neuendorffer
Received: from highland.itc.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/gfH:QW200hYSQsJE9P>;
          Thu,  7 Jan 1993 16:56:50 -0500 (EST)
Received: from highland.itc.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr20/tpn/.Outgoing/QF.IfH:PGS00hYS9C7LkQ>;
          Thu,  7 Jan 1993 16:55:30 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.highland.itc.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.highland.itc.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Thu,  7 Jan 1993 16:55:30 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <8fH_PGG00hYSRC7LcO@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Thu,  7 Jan 1993 16:55:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Tom Neuendorffer <tpn+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 1743+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: adew-clicklist - Problems
In-Reply-To: <9301071509.AA07435@nessie.cs.id.ethz.ch>
References: <9301071509.AA07435@nessie.cs.id.ethz.ch>

\begindata{text,538701360}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 7-Jan-93 
adew-clicklist - Problems Germano Caronni@nessie.c (1254)}



\quotation{I have a clicklist-value, in which i insert a stirng-array, 
containing

}\quotation{some colons. As the font inside the table is always proportional,

}\quotation{and as I have not found any way to set the font or it's proportio-

}\quotation{nality, my colums will always be unaligned. (i cant use TAB)

}\quotation{Is there a possibility to set the font-style or the font itself ?

}\quotation{In Arb I can set a body-font, but this matters only for the title

}\quotation{of the clicklist-field, not for data which i assign later...

}
The clicklistv object has a pointer to a text object and a cltextview. To 
change the style of the text, you could create a style object and call 
text_SetGlobalStyle  on the text object (followed by a text_NotifyObservers 
call) . 


\quotation{How can I let choose the user more than one entry of the clicklist

}\quotation{at the same time ? Is there a method where i can find a whole

}\quotation{selected range ? (And how can I find out, which button he uses to

}\quotation{click on the entries? I think there is something like this in the

}\quotation{valuev.ch - but I could not figure out how to let it work. It 
seems

}\quotation{that only inputs with the left mouse-button acutally cause a 
callback...

}
The clicklist view was designed as a simple way to get back a single 
clicked-upon string from the user, and these options are simply not supported. 
You could make your own subclass of clklist or cltextview that would support 
these, or you could try using the stringtable object (atk/util/strtbl.c). If 
you need a quick option that doesn't require programming, you could use the 
menterstrv view , and just tell your users to type an X after each choice that 
applies. See the Adew reference manual for info on menterstrv.


	Good luck,

		Tom

\enddata{text,538701360}

\enddata{text822, 40377}
\begindata{text822, 43626}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/sfHD29a00Udd4p1E5F>;
          Thu,  7 Jan 1993 22:10:03 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.YfHCzX200Udd0ogE4B>;
          Thu,  7 Jan 1993 22:07:16 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA13477@X> for info-andrew; Thu, 7 Jan 93 22:07:01 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA13565; Thu, 7 Jan 93 18:51:27 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 7 Jan 93 16:49:57 GMT
From: agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mucs!lucs!daves@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Dave Shield)
Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University
Subject: Tables containing rasters
Message-Id: <C0HtF9.4nz@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu


  We have been experiencing problems with printing tables where
one of the cells contains a raster image  (or any other inset
that produces PostScript output directly).
  Rather than printing the raster, the final document appears
with the _text_ of the PostScript instead.

  What appears to be happening is that table uses a troff
diversion to hold the body of each row, to ensure that page
breaks can occur when required.  This means that the troff is
processed twice - once for the diversion, and again when the
macro is executed.
  The PostScript is protected by a single level of transparency,
which is stripped off during the diversion.  Hence, when the macro
is executed, the PostScript is no longer passed through unchanged,
and gets printed like everything else.

  This is all using DITroff.  Groff does what you would expect
(even though it technically shouldn't).

  Any ideas?  (Other than 'use groff'!)

Dave
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Shield			      Janet: D.T.Shield@uk.ac.liverpool.compsci
Dept. of Computer Science,	      I'net: D.T.Shield@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk
Liverpool University,		"I _order_ you to help!
PO Box 147,			 You're a machine and you must do
Liverpool, L69 3BX		 what you're told."	T. Pratchett, _Diggers_ 
\enddata{text822, 43626}
\begindata{text822, 46243}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/MfHDDAS00Udd4ryE4m>;
          Thu,  7 Jan 1993 22:23:56 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.ofHDBhm00UddArjk5M>;
          Thu,  7 Jan 1993 22:22:22 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA14262@X> for info-andrew; Thu, 7 Jan 93 22:22:12 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA14678; Thu, 7 Jan 93 19:20:25 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 8 Jan 93 01:56:53 GMT
From: agate!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!ftlsw.telematics.com!ted@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Ted Goldblatt)
Organization: Telematics Intl., Inc.; Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Subject: Andrew under Solaris 2.x ?
Message-Id: <1993Jan8.015653.23570@telematics.com>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

I'm interested in running Andrew on a SparcClassic, which
means under Solaris 2.x (a :-(, I think, but maybe I'm wrong).
I just started reading this group and I thought I saw a comment 
implying that Andrew had not yet been ported to run in this 
environment.  Is this true?  (If it helps, we will (I believe)
be running X11R5, not OpenWindows (am I getting all of
my mixed caps right?))

If it doesn't yet run under Solaris 2.x, is anyone working
on a port, and are there any guesses as to availability?

Thanx!

ted
-- 
Ted Goldblatt    ted@telematics.com     (305) 351-4367
    Telematics Intl., Inc.   Ft. Lauderdale, FL
\enddata{text822, 46243}
\begindata{text822, 48211}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/gfHOdQS00Udb8I:052>;
          Fri,  8 Jan 1993 11:22:54 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q000/QF.cfHOc0O00UdbMI4k5T>;
          Fri,  8 Jan 1993 11:21:23 -0500 (EST)
Received: from LOAN1.SP.CS.CMU.EDU by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA05118@X> for info-andrew+; Fri, 8 Jan 93 11:21:03 EST
Received: from BatMail.robin.v2.13.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.LOAN1.SP.CS.CMU.EDU.sun4.mach
          via MS.5.6.LOAN1.SP.CS.CMU.EDU.sun4_mach;
          Fri,  8 Jan 1993 11:20:50 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <IfHObW600gpmQddH8L@cs.cmu.edu>
Date: Fri,  8 Jan 1993 11:20:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Wilfred.Hansen@cs.cmu.edu
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
        Dave Shield <agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mucs!lucs!daves@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tables containing rasters
Cc: bb+org.itc.atk.ia-trail@andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <C0HtF9.4nz@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk>
References: <C0HtF9.4nz@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk>

The "official" answer is that rasters don't print in tables.  

Sigh.

It is pleasant to learn that it does work under groff.

The inability of printing rasters in tables has long been a deficiency
of AUIS, but it has not been easy to see how to fix the problem within
the current printing technology.  Perhaps printing technology is 
something we should discuss at the annual meeting.

Fred Hansen
Andrew Consortium, Carnegie Mellon
(412) 268-6788   wjh+@andrew.cmu.edu

\enddata{text822, 48211}
\begindata{text822, 50036}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/8fHPX=i00Udb0OlU5M>;
          Fri,  8 Jan 1993 12:24:27 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q000/QF.0fHPWkS00Udb8OdU5u>;
          Fri,  8 Jan 1993 12:24:00 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q000/QF.UfHPVYq00UddMr704l>;
          Fri,  8 Jan 1993 12:22:46 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Athena.MIT.EDU (ATHENA-AS-WELL.MIT.EDU) by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA14079@X> for info-andrew; Fri, 8 Jan 93 12:22:21 EST
Received: from OGLALA.MIT.EDU by Athena.MIT.EDU with SMTP
	id AA05509; Fri, 8 Jan 93 12:22:08 EST
Received: by oglala (5.57/4.7) id AA05496; Fri, 8 Jan 93 12:22:06 -0500
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.oglala.pmax.ul4
          via MS.5.6.oglala.pmax_ul4;
          Fri,  8 Jan 1993 12:22:05 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <AfHPUx4Gf0478JPmYw@athena.mit.edu>
Date: Fri,  8 Jan 1993 12:22:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Cattey <wdc@Athena.MIT.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu,
        agate!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!ftlsw.telematics.com!ted@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
    (Ted Goldblatt)
Subject: Re: Andrew under Solaris 2.x ?
In-Reply-To: <1993Jan8.015653.23570@telematics.com>
References: <1993Jan8.015653.23570@telematics.com>

This month I will be finding out why EZ compiled for SunOS 4.1.2 core
dumps when run in Binary Compatibility mode under Solaris2.

I'll be interested in email exchange with anyone else doing Solaris2 work.

-wdc

\enddata{text822, 50036}
\begindata{text822, 51998}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/kfHSPYC00Udd5SNk44>;
          Fri,  8 Jan 1993 15:41:10 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.UfHSN5a00UddRS=E4m>;
          Fri,  8 Jan 1993 15:38:32 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA24089@X> for info-andrew; Fri, 8 Jan 93 15:38:13 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA14526; Fri, 8 Jan 93 12:31:59 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 8 Jan 93 19:31:39 GMT
From: auspex-gw!guy@uunet.uu.net  (Guy Harris)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara
Subject: Re: Andrew under Solaris 2.x ?
Message-Id: <16288@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
References: <1993Jan8.015653.23570@telematics.com>, <AfHPUx4Gf0478JPmYw@athena.mit.edu>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

>This month I will be finding out why EZ compiled for SunOS 4.1.2 core
>dumps when run in Binary Compatibility mode under Solaris2.

It works fine for me, although it could be working here because of some
of the hacks I've added.

Note, though, that *other* applications won't work because, apparently,
the binary-compatibility-mode run-time linker appears not to allow
run-time dynamic loading (with "dlopen()") of shareable objects from
SunOS 4.x.

As such, a real port may be necessary.

>I'll be interested in email exchange with anyone else doing Solaris2 work.

If anybody's doing such a port, they should note that:

	1) the main reason I wrote a version of the "class" dynamic
	   loader that sat atop "-ldl" was to prevent somebody from
	   writing a version that understood ELF images - SVR4 has
	   "-ldl" also (actually, AT&T invented the API for it, and Sun
	   picked it up for 4.1[.x]).

	2) the pseudo-tty mechanism is different.

	3) the net result of such a port may, if done right, amount not
	   just to a Solaris 2.x port, but to a generic SVR4 port.
\enddata{text822, 51998}
\begindata{text822, 54424}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/0fHk0wC00Ui3E3OE4H>;
          Sat,  9 Jan 1993 11:41:32 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.QfHjyxS00UddIRf05C>;
          Sat,  9 Jan 1993 11:39:30 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA07580@X> for info-andrew; Sat, 9 Jan 93 11:39:14 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA11945; Sat, 9 Jan 93 08:36:30 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 9 Jan 93 08:54:13 GMT
From: uunet.ca!xenitec!vances@uunet.uu.net  (Vance Shipley)
Organization: XeniTec Consulting, Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
Subject: Re: Andrew under Solaris 2.x ?
Message-Id: <1993Jan09.085413.2896@xenitec.on.ca>
References: <1993Jan8.015653.23570@telematics.com>, <AfHPUx4Gf0478JPmYw@athena.mit.edu>, <16288@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

In article <16288@auspex-gw.auspex.com> guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris) writes:

>	3) the net result of such a port may, if done right, amount not
>	   just to a Solaris 2.x port, but to a generic SVR4 port.

This would be nice :).  I'd dearly love to have Andrew on my SCO ODT boxes.

-- 
Vance Shipley 
vances@xenitec.on.ca         vances@switchview.com         vances@ltg.uucp
\enddata{text822, 54424}
\begindata{text822, 56225}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/EfHnWxm00UdZM9GU4B>;
          Sat,  9 Jan 1993 15:42:37 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.cfHnUaq00Udd0sfk56>;
          Sat,  9 Jan 1993 15:40:07 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA14499@X> for info-andrew; Sat, 9 Jan 93 15:39:57 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA19492; Sat, 9 Jan 93 12:30:50 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 9 Jan 93 19:23:45 GMT
From: auspex-gw!guy@uunet.uu.net  (Guy Harris)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara
Subject: Re: Andrew under Solaris 2.x ?
Message-Id: <16312@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
References: <AfHPUx4Gf0478JPmYw@athena.mit.edu>, <16288@auspex-gw.auspex.com>, <1993Jan09.085413.2896@xenitec.on.ca>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

>>	3) the net result of such a port may, if done right, amount not
>>	   just to a Solaris 2.x port, but to a generic SVR4 port.
>
>This would be nice :).  I'd dearly love to have Andrew on my SCO ODT boxes.

Well, then, a generic SVR4 port wouldn't help you, because SCO's UNIX is
based on SVR3, not SVR4, from everything I've heard; unless SCO has
added SVR4-style pseudo-ttys (which are rather different from BSD-style
pseudo-ttys), and has added an SVR4-style "-ldl" library, there're going
to be things in the SVR4 port that won't work worth a damn under SCO
UNIX.

Besides, ATK 5.1 *already* appears to include SCO UNIX support, and, as
far as I know, SCO ODT is basically SCO UNIX + SCO's X11 implementation
(the impression I have is that SCO UNIX : SCO ODT :: SunOS :: Solaris - 
i.e., the latter, in both cases, is the former plus a window system; and
yes, even Solaris 2.x includes SunOS, SunOS 5.x to be specific).
\enddata{text822, 56225}
\begindata{text822, 58530}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 5904;andrew.cmu.edu;Robert Andrew Ryan
Received: from atk.itc.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/ofIOv3e00Woi9aKk4H>;
          Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:30:43 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from atk.itc.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr20/rr2b/.Outgoing/QF.0fIOrqG00WoiR8fEUg>;
          Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:27:19 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.atk.itc.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.atk.itc.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:27:17 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <kfIOrpK00WoiR8fEN=@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:27:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Andrew Ryan <rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 2239+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Static linking ATK apps

\begindata{text,538766644}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
Technical discussion and request for ideas follows, feel free to skip this 
message...


We are currently working on a mechanism whereby a runapp can be automagically 
linked with a given set of classes statically loaded.  (We are also woring on 
eliminating the assembly language trampoline code in the dynamic loading 
system, and providing dummy dynamic loading functions for machines without 
dynamic loading support.)


The current scheme modifies the rules for making a .do file to install a list 
of the object files used, and a list of the libraries used, and a list of the 
classes references by the object files included in the .do.  (Or which would 
be if a real .do was being generated.)  A program has been written which uses 
this information to construct a list of the object files and libraries needed 
given a list of classes which are desired...  For example supplying the list:


eza

xws


to this program lists all the object files and libraries needed for the most 
basic runapp, and generates an appropriate statload.c.  The difficulty at this 
point is that the libraries must be re-ordered by hand.  (Since depending on 
what objects are pulled out of library A it might depend on library B, 
necessitating library B coming after library A on the link line.)


Currently I am thinking of solving this by having a master list of libraries 
(and -L and -l switches) with an associated priority indicating where the 
argument should fall in the argument list.  Any unknown libraries would be 
placed (in no particular order) before the known libraries.  There are a few 
problems with this approach of course.  First, if there are dependencies 
between user supplied libraries they must be added to the master list. 
 Second,  the dependencies between libraries may depend on which .o files get 
pulled out. 


The main goal all of this is striving to achieve is eliminating the need to 
get dynamic loading working for ATK to be useful on a new platform.  So 
ideally the solution to ordering the libraries would be machine/OS 
independent.


If you have any thoughts on the matter we would be happy to hear them. 
 (Probably best just to reply to me, if there is general interest I'll 
summarize.)


Thanks for any ideas,

-Rob Ryan

Andrew Consortium

\enddata{text,538766644}

\enddata{text822, 58530}
\begindata{text822, 61980}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/wfIV5FC00Ui3QGtk4C>;
          Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:31:15 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.MfIV3B600UddFhWE5z>;
          Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:29:02 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA28033@X> for info-andrew; Mon, 11 Jan 93 19:28:54 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA23305; Mon, 11 Jan 93 16:17:58 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 11 Jan 93 14:14:59 GMT
From: agate!spool.mu.edu!olivea!inews.Intel.COM!ilx018.intel.com!iancu@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Igal Iancu)
Organization: Intel Israel (74) Ltd.
Subject: New to Andrew
Message-Id: <1irvd3INN16gk@ilx018.intel.com>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu


Hi,


I am new to the Andrew system and am actually looking for a system to
replace our mail system and maybe some other database services.

We are a site with roughly 600 workstations (AIX 3.2, i486 SVR4 on NCR and
a bunch of Sparc and sun386i).  We have AFS installed for the AIX machines
and the rest use NFS. In addition, we have ~200 PCs using PC-NFS and Novell.

Mail is heavily based on an Ultrix server which speaks smtp (sendmail) and
DECnet.  It houses also a central /usr/spool/mail which is mounted by
all clients using NFS.   

I am looking for a system which will not have a single point of failure,
and maybe supplies some other goodies.


Can anyone share their experience with moving to Andrew (if applicable) ,
and how does it fit with the above site description.

Please reply by mail.


Thanks in advance,


Igal Iancu                                         
Systems Engineering                           
Intel Corporation
iancu@iil.intel.com
\enddata{text822, 61980}
\begindata{text822, 64255}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/QfIW:dO00UdZEpE04i>;
          Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:45:13 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.gfIW9wO00Udd02Y05h>;
          Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:44:32 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA00646@X> for info-andrew; Mon, 11 Jan 93 20:44:12 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA26530; Mon, 11 Jan 93 17:32:10 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:33:57 GMT
From: enterpoop.mit.edu!eru.mt.luth.se!lunic!sunic!mcsun!sun4nl!sci.kun.nl!cs.kun.nl!robd@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Rob Duin)
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Subject: Messages options
Message-Id: <C0p7CL.BDw@sci.kun.nl>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

Hello everbody,

The Messages program has some known options as
-s for ~/sendmessageinit
-m for only reading mail
-w for separate windows for each region

I wonder if there is also an option that prevents "messages" from accessing the /var/spool/mail directory at startup time. I just want to read the bulletin boards. Does anybody know?

Yes, I can set "unset hold" in my ".mailrc", but that file can also be used by other programs, so that is not a very good solution.

I am asking this, because at our site some people use messages and some want to use Eudora at their Mac's. We can not tell everyone to use the AMS system.

Hope you can help.

Rob Duin


--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rob Duin, Department of Informatics,
University of Nijmegen, P.O. 9010, 6500 GL  Nijmegen
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
\enddata{text822, 64255}
\begindata{text822, 66446}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/kfIgx2200Udd0B2E50>;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 09:01:38 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.8fIgv:i00UdbQ8SE5v>;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 08:59:39 -0500 (EST)
ReSent-Message-ID: <Added.wfIgv_G00UdbQ8S087@andrew.cmu.edu>
Received: from neptun.kapsch.co.at by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA02160@X> for info-andrew; Tue, 12 Jan 93 08:59:14 EST
Return-Path:   @neptun.kapsch.co.at:fodatec@harare.kapsch.co.at
Resent-Date:   Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:59 MET
Received: from harare.kapsch.co.at [148.198.10.5] by neptun.kapsch.co.at
           with SMTP-VMS via TCP/IP; Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:58 MET
Received: by harare.kapsch.co.at (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA02273; Tue, 12 Jan 93 14:57:28 +0100
Received: from Messages.7.15.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.harare.kapsch.co.at.sun4.41
          via MS.5.6.harare.kapsch.co.at.sun4_41;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:57:26 +0100 (MET)
Message-Id: <EfIgt6SIlUc5Q8TkJy@harare.kapsch.co.at>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:57:26 +0100 (MET)
From: Fodatec Project <fodatec@harare.kapsch.co.at>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: How to resize the window of a running application?

Hello,

Could anyone please give me a hint how to change the window size of a
running application from within that application, to the values which
are computed at run-time in a result of some user's action ?

Thank you in advance,

Kazimierz Zielinski
fodatec@kapsch.co.at
\enddata{text822, 66446}
\begindata{text822, 68268}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 1210;alw.nih.gov;Bob Dew
Received: from spot.dcrt.nih.gov via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl) (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl@andrew.cmu.edu)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/sfIhHKe0ts2FMFek5y>;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 09:25:26 -0500 (EST)
Received: from kirin.dcrt.nih.gov via qmail
          ID </afs/alw.nih.gov/service/mailqs/q1/QF.QfIhGeW0ts1dE9oU5I>;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 09:24:42 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from kirin.dcrt.nih.gov via qmail
          ID </afs/alw.nih.gov/service/mailqs/q3/QF.EfIhEQO0ts1dE9m05h>;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 09:22:20 -0500 (EST)
Received: from dude.dcrt.nih.gov via qmail
          ID </afs/alw.nih.gov/service/mailqs/q3/QF.4fIhDLW0ts4j0176t1>;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 09:21:11 -0500 (EST)
Received: from dude.dcrt.nih.gov via qmail
          ID </afs/alw.nih.gov/dcrt/rdew/.Outgoing/QF.4fIhDHO0ts4j0HBTtk>;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 09:21:07 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.dude.dcrt.nih.gov.sun4c.411
          via MS.5.6.dude.dcrt.nih.gov.sun4_41;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 09:21:07 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <wfIhDHC0ts4jMHBTlU@alw.nih.gov>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 09:21:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Bob Dew <rdew+@alw.nih.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    enterpoop.mit.edu!eru.mt.luth.se!lunic!sunic!mcsun!sun4nl!sci.kun.nl!cs.kun.nl!robd@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
    (Rob Duin)
Subject: Re: Messages options
In-Reply-To: <C0p7CL.BDw@sci.kun.nl>
References: <C0p7CL.BDw@sci.kun.nl>

You could try setting "MailboxFile:/dev/null" in your .preferences file.
 This should work, provided "MAIL" is left undefined in your envrionment.


-Bob
\enddata{text822, 68268}
\begindata{text822, 70255}
X-Andrew-Authenticated-As: 469;andrew.cmu.edu;Craig F. Everhart
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 1312;transarc.com;Craig Everhart
Received: from sybil.transarc.com via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl) (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl@andrew.cmu.edu)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/MfIkITX0BwxI0xDU4p>;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 12:51:27 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from sybil.transarc.com via qmail
          ID </afs/transarc.com/usr/cfe/.Outgoing/QF.QfIkFyX0BwxIA6bUoX>;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 12:48:47 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.7.14.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.sybil.transarc.com.sun4.40
          via MS.5.6.sybil.transarc.com.sun4_40;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 12:48:43 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <EfIkFvb0BwxII6bUdZ@transarc.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 12:48:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Craig_Everhart@transarc.com
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 3672+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    iancu@iil.intel.com (Igal Iancu)
Subject: Re: New to Andrew
In-Reply-To: <1irvd3INN16gk@ilx018.intel.com>
References: <1irvd3INN16gk@ilx018.intel.com>

\begindata{text,3032408}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 11-Jan-93 New to 
Andrew Igal Iancu@ucbvax.Berkel (966)}


\quotation{We are a site with roughly 600 workstations (AIX 3.2, i486 SVR4 on 
NCR and

}\quotation{a bunch of Sparc and sun386i).  We have AFS installed for the AIX 
machines

}\quotation{and the rest use NFS. In addition, we have ~200 PCs using PC-NFS 
and Novell.

}
\quotation{Mail is heavily based on an Ultrix server which speaks smtp 
(sendmail) and

}\quotation{DECnet.  It houses also a central /usr/spool/mail which is mounted 
by

}\quotation{all clients using NFS.   

}
\quotation{I am looking for a system which will not have a single point of 
failure,

}\quotation{and maybe supplies some other goodies.

}
This seems like the obvious time to mention AMDS (Andrew Message Delivery 
System), which is part of the Andrew distribution.  AMDS itself is a local 
mail system for AFS clients.  It can be configured without a single 
point-of-failure for the system as a whole.  It was originally developed 
jointly with AFS and the rest of Andrew, including AMS message-handling 
clients that know how to exploit features of AMDS.


AMDS accepts mail for local users of the AFS cell and delivers each message 
into a separate file in a subdirectory of the user's AFS home directory 
(~userid/Mailbox by default, but configurable).  Outgoing mail is sent through 
a variety of queues (in AFS).  AMDS expects that some other system will be 
responsible for off-site mail delivery.  As delivered, it expects to use 
sendmail in this role, but most any system would be OK.  The usual 
configuration has sendmail running only on a subset of the AFS cell's 
machines, called ``post office machines'' (PO machines).  (These machines are 
generally listed as the MX recipients of mail going to the domain with the 
name of the AFS cell.)  Mail for the AFS cell's domain arrives from outside 
via SMTP at one of these PO machines and is injected into the AMDS queues. 
 AMDS daemons running on the PO machines deliver mail from these queues to its 
recipients, whether local or remote.  Remote delivery is accomplished by 
invoking the long-haul mailer of choice, configured as sendmail as AMDS comes 
out of the box.


So why AMDS?

\leftindent{- it deals with AFS transient failures

- it is relatively well-featured, including a decent distribution list 
mechanism and fancy name pattern-matching

- it is well-integrated with the rest of Andrew

- it can be made independent of a single-point-of-failure, with replicated AFS 
volumes and multiple PO machines}


Why not AMDS?

\leftindent{- mail arrives in ~userid/Mailbox/*, not exactly the same as 
/usr/spool/mail/userid

- it's something novel to administer

}
AMDS uses a ``white pages'' database of AFS accounts, ultimately listing mail 
destinations or addresses for all accounts in the cell.  Users who want their 
mail in places other than the AFS cell can easily forward AMDS mail to that 
other address.


Carnegie-Mellon, by all measures a large installation, runs several server 
machines running Unix (AFS clients) where people using PCs and Macs can 
connect up their client programs to special AMS services.  The software that 
they use for this, on both the PC and Mac end as well as on the Unix end, 
isn't on the Andrew distribution, but the last I heard there was no problem 
anticipated with releasing this software on roughly the same terms as the 
existing Andrew distribution.


To be reasonably complete, the folks at Carnegie-Mellon are looking for a 
successor to AMS (including AMDS).  My reading of that, which they're clearly 
able to challenge, is that AMS (the mail user agent end) provides a bboard 
system that's pretty expensive to implement as mere AFS files and directories, 
but most AMDS features are still useful in their environment.


Hope this helps.


		Craig

\enddata{text,3032408}

\enddata{text822, 70255}
\begindata{text822, 75558}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 2368;andrew.cmu.edu;Douglas F. DeJulio
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/4fInJta00UdbF2vU8p>;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:17:45 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q000/QF.wfInJQ600UdbN2o04u>;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:17:18 -0500 (EST)
Received: from sushi.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q000/QF.QfInHh:00Wog40O2le>;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:15:26 -0500 (EST)
Received: from sushi.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/dd26/.Outgoing/QF.sfInHai00WogA6hEcN>;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:15:19 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.sushi.andrew.cmu.edu.rt.aos4
          via MS.5.6.sushi.andrew.cmu.edu.rt_aos4;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:15:18 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <8fInHaS00WogM6hEU4@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:15:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "Douglas F. DeJulio" <dd26+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 321+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Messages options
In-Reply-To: <C0p6yq.B7u@sci.kun.nl>
References: <C0p6yq.B7u@sci.kun.nl>

\begindata{text,271206156}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\quotation{I wonder if there is also an option that prevents "messages" from 
accessing the /var/spool/mail directory at startup time. I just want to read 
the bulletin boards. Does anybody know?

}
If you set the \bold{PersonalMailCollectionCommand:} preference to 
\bold{/bin/true}, you should get the result you want.

-- 

Doug DeJulio

ddj+@cmu.edu

\enddata{text,271206156}

\enddata{text822, 75558}
\begindata{text822, 77515}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 1447;andrew.cmu.edu;Gary Keim
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/IfIntn:00WohF8GU5W>;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:56:03 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr13/gk5g/.Outgoing/QF.MfIns9i00Woh0sZI5l>;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:54:18 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:54:17 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <4fIns9G00WohAsZHwz@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:54:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Gary Keim <gk5g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 867+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: How to resize the window of a running application?
In-Reply-To: <EfIgt6SIlUc5Q8TkJy@harare.kapsch.co.at>
References: <EfIgt6SIlUc5Q8TkJy@harare.kapsch.co.at>

\begindata{text,539208612}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from misc: 12-Jan-93 How to resize the window of.. 
Fodatec Project@harare.k (274)}


\quotation{Could anyone please give me a hint how to change the window size of 
a

}\quotation{running application from within that application, to the values 
which

}\quotation{are computed at run-time in a result of some user's action ?

}
There are methods in andrew/atk/basics/x/xim.c that do what you want:


xim__ResizeWindow(self, w, h)

xim__MoveWindow(self, x, y)


These methods don't seem to be fully integrated into the system because they 
don't appear in xim.ch and you would also expect there to be empty, dummy 
routines in im.c that these would override.  This might imply that there is a 
problem with these routines.... anybody know?


You \bold{should} be able to use these guys in your code, like so:


#include <im.ih>

im_ResizeWindow(fooview_GetIM(self), newWidth, newHeight);


Gary Keim

Andrew Consortium


\enddata{text,539208612}

\enddata{text822, 77515}
\begindata{text822, 79779}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/sfJ7af600UddB9BE5p>;
          Wed, 13 Jan 1993 15:20:59 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.gfJ7X9m00UddN8x05o>;
          Wed, 13 Jan 1993 15:17:14 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA18666@X> for info-andrew; Wed, 13 Jan 93 15:17:03 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA12201; Wed, 13 Jan 93 12:11:53 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 13 Jan 93 09:19:27 GMT
From: enterpoop.mit.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!Germany.EU.net!Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE!tommy!klute@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Rainer Klute)
Organization: CS Department, Dortmund University, Germany
Subject: Re: New to Andrew
Message-Id: <1j0mqvINNh4u@fbi-news.Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE>
References: <1irvd3INN16gk@ilx018.intel.com>, <EfIkFvb0BwxII6bUdZ@transarc.com>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

In article <EfIkFvb0BwxII6bUdZ@transarc.com>, Craig_Everhart@TRANSARC.COM
writes:
|> Why not AMDS?
|>     - mail arrives in ~userid/Mailbox/*, not exactly the same as
|>     /usr/spool/mail/userid
|>     - it's something novel to administer

Is it possible to confige the "messages" application to behave like other
mail user agents and does not use the ADMS?

-- 
  Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute      klute@irb.informatik.uni-dortmund.de
  Univ. Dortmund, IRB
  Postfach 500500         |)|/    Tel.: +49 231 755-4663
D-W4600 Dortmund 50       |\|\    Fax : +49 231 755-2386
\enddata{text822, 79779}
\begindata{text822, 81878}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/AfJCe=G00Ui30O4E43>;
          Wed, 13 Jan 1993 23:22:36 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.AfJCaqC00UddQOwE4:>;
          Wed, 13 Jan 1993 23:19:05 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA06870@X> for info-andrew; Wed, 13 Jan 93 23:18:40 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA29174; Wed, 13 Jan 93 20:09:51 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 13 Jan 93 16:34:57 GMT
From: panix!miner@nyu.edu  (Ed Miner)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Subject: More Printing with ez questions?
Message-Id: <1993Jan13.163457.241@panix.com>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

Hello,

first of all i wanted to thank all of you who responded to my question 
concerning ez and margins (thanks a lot). And now i have two other questions?

1. Can you import man pages into ez, and print them?


2. How can i print a c file, with the special indentation, and the comments
italicized, and functions bold, whenever I try to print the c file, i just
get a plain ascii version. How can i have it print the c file as it is
shown on the screen?


thanks
ed
\enddata{text822, 81878}
\begindata{text822, 83615}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po2.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/UfJM7zO00Uda4GbU4t>;
          Thu, 14 Jan 1993 10:08:47 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q003/QF.AfJM5Ei00Udd0LiU4i>;
          Thu, 14 Jan 1993 10:05:55 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA06067@X> for info-andrew; Thu, 14 Jan 93 10:05:42 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA28659; Thu, 14 Jan 93 07:01:16 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 14 Jan 93 10:54:50 GMT
From: adobe!usenet@decwrl.dec.com  (Zalman Stern)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Subject: Re: How to resize the window of a running application?
Message-Id: <1993Jan14.105450.27628@adobe.com>
References: <4fIns9G00WohAsZHwz@andrew.cmu.edu>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

In article <4fIns9G00WohAsZHwz@andrew.cmu.edu> gk5g+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Gary  
Keim) writes:
> Excerpts from misc: 12-Jan-93 How to resize the window of.. Fodatec
> Project@harare.k (274)
> 
> > Could anyone please give me a hint how to change the window size of a
> > running application from within that application, to the values which
> > are computed at run-time in a result of some user's action ?
> 
> There are methods in andrew/atk/basics/x/xim.c that do what you want:
> 
> xim__ResizeWindow(self, w, h)
> xim__MoveWindow(self, x, y)
> 
> These methods don't seem to be fully integrated into the system because
> they don't appear in xim.ch and you would also expect there to be empty,
> dummy routines in im.c that these would override.  This might imply that
> there is a problem with these routines.... anybody know?

My guess: they're basically impossible to implement under wm. I.e.  
historical lossage that you can ignore.

--
Zalman Stern		   zalman@adobe.com		    (415) 962 3824
Adobe Systems, 1585 Charleston Rd., POB 7900, Mountain View, CA 94039-7900
  "Yeah. Ask 'em if they'll upgrade my shifters too." Bill Watterson
\enddata{text822, 83615}
\begindata{text822, 86103}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 8158;andrew.cmu.edu;David Anderson
Received: from carnot.itc.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/UfJNG6e00hYt4mhU5i>;
          Thu, 14 Jan 1993 11:27:51 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from carnot.itc.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr3/dba/.Outgoing/QF.ofJNBym00hYt4IAQpm>;
          Thu, 14 Jan 1993 11:23:27 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.carnot.itc.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.carnot.itc.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Thu, 14 Jan 1993 11:23:23 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <wfJNBvy00hYt0IAQdS@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 11:23:23 -0500 (EST)
From: David Anderson <dba+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 102+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    panix!miner@nyu.edu (Ed Miner)
Subject: Re: More Printing with ez questions?
In-Reply-To: <1993Jan13.163457.241@panix.com>
References: <1993Jan13.163457.241@panix.com>

\begindata{text,539087420}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
1. Can you import man pages into ez, and print them?


	rofftext -man manpage.1 | ezprint ...


--david

\enddata{text,539087420}

\enddata{text822, 86103}
\begindata{text822, 87521}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 1447;andrew.cmu.edu;Gary Keim
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/EfJNcpy00Woh5HR05y>;
          Thu, 14 Jan 1993 11:52:06 -0500 (EST)
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr13/gk5g/.Outgoing/QF.AfJNc9S00WohNEN2Ba>;
          Thu, 14 Jan 1993 11:51:23 -0500 (EST)
Received: from VUI.Andrew.3.70.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Thu, 14 Jan 1993 11:51:21 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <8fJNc9K00WohBEN24o@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 11:51:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Gary Keim <gk5g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: How to resize the window of a running application?
Cc:
In-Reply-To: <IfJMd66IlUc5E8XEg8@harare.kapsch.co.at>
References: <IfJMd66IlUc5E8XEg8@harare.kapsch.co.at>

You need to build in andrew/atk/basics ... that will put the newly compiled modules in libbasics.a and then build in andrew/atk/apps ... that will link in the
new modules into runapp:

% cd andrew/atk
% make Install SUBDIRS="basics apps"

Gary Keim
Andrew Consortium


\enddata{text822, 87521}
\begindata{text822, 88940}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 91;andrew.cmu.edu;Tom Neuendorffer
Received: from highland.itc.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/4fJO6vW00hYS145k9t>;
          Thu, 14 Jan 1993 12:24:12 -0500 (EST)
Received: from highland.itc.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr20/tpn/.Outgoing/QF.8fJO6K:00hYS0OP2p4>;
          Thu, 14 Jan 1993 12:23:34 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.highland.itc.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.highland.itc.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Thu, 14 Jan 1993 12:23:33 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <wfJO6Jq00hYS0OP2gU@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 12:23:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Tom Neuendorffer <tpn+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 1273+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: More Printing with ez questions?
CC: panix!miner@nyu.edu (Ed Miner)
In-Reply-To: <1993Jan13.163457.241@panix.com>
References: <1993Jan13.163457.241@panix.com>

\begindata{text,538940492}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 13-Jan-93 More 
Printing with ez quest.. Ed Miner@nyu.edu (469)}


\quotation{1. Can you import man pages into ez, and print them?

}\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 14-Jan-93 Re: 
More Printing with ez q.. David Anderson (102+0)}


\quotation{	rofftext -man manpage.1 | ezprint ...

}

Rofftext does a fair job of rendering a man page for viewing on the display, 
but printing the result will probably not render anything sufficiently close 
to the way the man page was supposed to print  . If you are writing some sort 
of help application that works off of man pages, you may be better off 
supplying a special print function that goes back to the source to print them 
properly, (a simple system call should suffice) . Depending on your goals, you 
may also want to consider viewing the man pages w/ 

troff -man manpage.1 | preview



\quotation{2. How can i print a c file, with the special indentation, and the 
comments

}\quotation{italicized, and functions bold, whenever I try to print the c 
file, i just

}\quotation{get a plain ascii version. How can i have it print the c file as 
it is

}\quotation{shown on the screen?}


Just run

ezprint foo.c

or chose 'print' from the ez menu. If this doesn't work, try putting 

addfiletype .c ctext

in your .atkinit file, if it isn't there.



	Have fun,

		Tom N.

\enddata{text,538940492}

\enddata{text822, 88940}
\begindata{text822, 91675}
X-Andrew-Authenticated-As: 469;andrew.cmu.edu;Craig F. Everhart
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 1312;transarc.com;Craig Everhart
Received: from sybil.transarc.com via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl) (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl@andrew.cmu.edu)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/gfJPGCL0BwxI80cE4y>;
          Thu, 14 Jan 1993 13:44:30 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from sybil.transarc.com via qmail
          ID </afs/transarc.com/usr/cfe/.Outgoing/QF.sfJPCh=0BwxIJQnFR6>;
          Thu, 14 Jan 1993 13:40:45 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.7.14.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.sybil.transarc.com.sun4.40
          via MS.5.6.sybil.transarc.com.sun4_40;
          Thu, 14 Jan 1993 13:40:43 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <4fJPCfD0BwxIRQnFF2@transarc.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 13:40:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Craig_Everhart@transarc.com
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 334+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    klute@irb.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Rainer Klute)
Subject: Re: New to Andrew
In-Reply-To: <1j0mqvINNh4u@fbi-news.Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE>
References: <1irvd3INN16gk@ilx018.intel.com>, <EfIkFvb0BwxII6bUdZ@transarc.com>,
	<1j0mqvINNh4u@fbi-news.Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE>

\begindata{text,3431696}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 13-Jan-93 Re: New 
to Andrew Rainer Klute@ucbvax.Berk (572)}


\quotation{Is it possible to confige the "messages" application to behave like 
other

}\quotation{mail user agents and does not use the ADMS?

}
Of course.  This is how most sites use it.  It should run that way as you pull 
it off the distribution.


		Craig

\enddata{text,3431696}

\enddata{text822, 91675}
\begindata{text822, 93608}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/4fJcgKG00UdZ545k8d>;
          Fri, 15 Jan 1993 04:59:50 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.0fJcfp600UddQSsU5S>;
          Fri, 15 Jan 1993 04:59:19 -0500 (EST)
ReSent-Message-ID: <Added.sfJcfie00UddASqU9U@andrew.cmu.edu>
Received: from neptun.kapsch.co.at by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA07891@X> for info-andrew+; Fri, 15 Jan 93 04:58:40 EST
Return-Path:   @neptun.kapsch.co.at:fodatec@harare.kapsch.co.at
Resent-Date:   Fri, 15 Jan 1993 10:59 MET
Received: from harare.kapsch.co.at [148.198.10.5] by neptun.kapsch.co.at
           with SMTP-VMS via TCP/IP; Fri, 15 Jan 1993 10:59 MET
Received: by harare.kapsch.co.at (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA09063; Fri, 15 Jan 93 10:58:32 +0100
Received: from Messages.7.15.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.harare.kapsch.co.at.sun4.41
          via MS.5.6.harare.kapsch.co.at.sun4_41;
          Fri, 15 Jan 1993 10:58:31 +0100 (MET)
Message-Id: <kfJcf7CIlUc58Vnkcm@harare.kapsch.co.at>
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1993 10:58:31 +0100 (MET)
From: Fodatec Project <fodatec@harare.kapsch.co.at>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 1478+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?
In-Reply-To: <1993Jan14.105450.27628@adobe.com>
References: <4fIns9G00WohAsZHwz@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<1993Jan14.105450.27628@adobe.com>

\begindata{text,1398592}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
Many thanks to Gary Keim from Andrew Consortium for helping solving our 
problem with resizing windows.

\excerptedcaption{
Excerpts from info-andrew: 14-Jan-93 Re: How to resize the windo.. Zalman 
Stern@decwrl.dec. (1140)}


\quotation{My guess: they're basically impossible to implement under wm. I.e. 
 

}\quotation{historical lossage that you can ignore.

}

We haven't though ignored our 'historical lossage' and the following is 
working for us now (with X11 environment):


1) Add to the \bold{methods} in atk/basics/common/\bold{im.c}\bold{h}:


\typewriter{    ResizeWindow (int width, int height) returns boolean;

    MoveWindow (long x, long y) returns boolean;

}
2) Add to atk/basics/common/\bold{im.c}:


\typewriter{boolean im__ResizeWindow(self, width, height)

struct im *self;

int width, height;

\{

    printf("im_ResizeWindow: deferred method\\n");

    return FALSE;

\}


boolean im__MoveWindow(self, x, y)

struct im *self;

long x, y;

\{

    printf("im_MoveWindow: deferred method\\n");

    return FALSE;

\}


}3)  Add to the \bold{overrides} part of atk/basics/x/\bold{xim.ch}:


\typewriter{	ResizeWindow (int width, int height) returns boolean;

	MoveWindow (long x, long y) returns boolean;

}
4)

% touch atk/basics/x/xim.c


5) Install changes by:


% cd andrew/atk

% make Install SUBDIRS="basics apps"


6) After this you can use: 


\typewriter{#include <im.ih>

im_ResizeWindow(fooview_GetIM(self), newWidth, newHeight);


}and analogously im_MoveWindow. (Points 5 and 6 come unchanged from Gary 
Keim).


Both routines work as expected ! (SunSparc2, Andrew 5.0.0, NCD X-Term)


Kazimierz Zielinski

fodatec@kapsch.co.at\
\enddata{text,1398592}

\enddata{text822, 93608}
\begindata{text822, 97129}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/QfJupgm00UdZ8rQU5m>;
          Sat, 16 Jan 1993 01:38:37 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q003/QF.gfJuojm00UddMIQU5=>;
          Sat, 16 Jan 1993 01:37:36 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA05224@X> for info-andrew; Sat, 16 Jan 93 01:37:24 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA10951; Fri, 15 Jan 93 22:24:20 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 15 Jan 93 21:48:13 GMT
From: auspex-gw!guy@uunet.uu.net  (Guy Harris)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara
Subject: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?
Message-Id: <16470@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
References: <1993Jan14.105450.27628@adobe.com>, <kfJcf7CIlUc58Vnkcm@harare.kapsch.co.at>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

>We haven't though ignored our 'historical lossage' and the following is
>working for us now (with X11 environment):

Actually, I'd assumed that the "historical lossage" to which Zalman
Stern was referring wasn't the resize operations, but the lack of dummy
resize operations in "im.c" - i.e.,

 > > These methods don't seem to be fully integrated into the system because
 > > they don't appear in xim.ch and you would also expect there to be empty,
 > > dummy routines in im.c that these would override.  This might imply that
 > > there is a problem with these routines.... anybody know?
 > 
 > My guess: they're basically impossible to implement under wm. I.e.  
 > historical lossage that you can ignore.

was intended to say "the only problem with those routines is that
they're impossible to implement under 'wm', so the lack of the dummy
routines in 'im.c', and the lack of declarations in 'xim.ch', is
historical lossage which you may ignore; go ahead and make the resize
operations work under X, and don't worry about 'wm'."

Then again, I consider the fact that Andrew's keyboard event input model
is based on a Heathkit H19-style stream of input characters to be
another example of "wm"-based historical lossage; I wish its keyboard
input event model were better tied to modern window systems, including
but not limited to X....
\enddata{text822, 97129}
\begindata{text822, 99857}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po2.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/sfJvi3S00Uda96s057>;
          Sat, 16 Jan 1993 02:38:43 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.sfJvgxK00Udd4Mrk4z>;
          Sat, 16 Jan 1993 02:37:33 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA06362@X> for info-andrew; Sat, 16 Jan 93 02:37:28 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA13777; Fri, 15 Jan 93 23:34:33 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 15 Jan 93 22:55:48 GMT
From: xrxedds!xrxedds!liebman@uunet.uu.net  (Chris Liebman)
Organization: Xerox EDDS, Herndon, Va.
Subject: problem centering a table
Message-Id: <LIEBMAN.93Jan15175548@zod.xrxedds.UUCP>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu


I am having a problem getting a table centered.  It works on the
screen, but when it is pronted it is always left justified!

I am using groff to process the output.

Any ideas?

			-- Chris
--
Chris Liebman		Work			Home
Internet:	liebman@xrxedds.com	liebman@zod.xrxedds.com
UUCP:		uunet!xrxedds!liebman	uunet!bopper!zod!liebman
Phone:		1-703-787-2032		1-703-378-2715
\enddata{text822, 99857}
\begindata{text822, 101512}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po2.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/8fK30A:00UdaABek4f>;
          Sat, 16 Jan 1993 10:55:56 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.4fK2xJS00UddAKtE48>;
          Sat, 16 Jan 1993 10:52:57 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA05853@X> for info-andrew; Sat, 16 Jan 93 10:52:45 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA00631; Sat, 16 Jan 93 07:45:29 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 16 Jan 93 05:30:04 GMT
From: rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu  (Robert Andrew Ryan)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Subject: Re: problem centering a table
Message-Id: <EfK2bwe00Woi12wFEx@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <LIEBMAN.93Jan15175548@zod.xrxedds.UUCP>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

Excerpts from netnews.comp.soft-sys.andrew: 15-Jan-93 problem centering
a table Chris Liebman@xrxedds.UU (369)

> I am having a problem getting a table centered.  It works on the
> screen, but when it is pronted it is always left justified!

I'm afraid it can't be done, in general styles affect only text.  You
might be able to work out Troff, or Postscript magic to put before and
after the table to get it centered though.  (See the groff
documentation, and the ez help files.)

-Rob
\enddata{text822, 101512}
\begindata{text822, 103363}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/ofKDj5600UdZASz059>;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 01:25:09 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.QfKDhm:00UddNfu05k>;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 01:23:52 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA27607@X> for info-andrew; Sun, 17 Jan 93 01:23:35 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA18481; Sat, 16 Jan 93 22:07:43 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 17 Jan 93 05:51:58 GMT
From: adobe!usenet@decwrl.dec.com  (Zalman Stern)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Subject: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?
Message-Id: <1993Jan17.055158.8543@adobe.com>
References: <kfJcf7CIlUc58Vnkcm@harare.kapsch.co.at>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

In article <kfJcf7CIlUc58Vnkcm@harare.kapsch.co.at>  
fodatec@HARARE.KAPSCH.CO.AT (Fodatec Project) writes:
> Many thanks to Gary Keim from Andrew Consortium for helping solving our
> problem with resizing windows.
> 
> Excerpts from info-andrew: 14-Jan-93 Re: How to resize the windo..
> Zalman Stern@decwrl.dec. (1140)
> 
> > My guess: they're basically impossible to implement under wm. I.e.  
> > historical lossage that you can ignore.
>
>We haven't though ignored our 'historical lossage' and the following is
>working for us now (with X11 environment):

Unless you implemented these methods in the wm specific subclass of im, then  
you ignored the historical lossage I was pointing out. Once upon a time, ATK  
had a "least common denominator" policy with a windowing system called wm  
which was more primitive than X11 (but smaller, faster, and more  
"loveable"(*)). It would be hard to implement move and resize window  
operations under wm so they might have become "second class" methods which  
were in the xim interface but not in im itself.

(*) As in James Gosling's comment that "you can learn to love anything."
--
Zalman Stern		   zalman@adobe.com		    (415) 962 3824
Adobe Systems, 1585 Charleston Rd., POB 7900, Mountain View, CA 94039-7900
  "Yeah. Ask 'em if they'll upgrade my shifters too." Bill Watterson
\enddata{text822, 103363}
\begindata{text822, 106057}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/IfKOIWO00UdZ89:E5r>;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 13:27:46 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q003/QF.kfKOG7e00UddAZh05R>;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 13:25:11 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA09638@X> for info-andrew; Sun, 17 Jan 93 13:24:55 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA25357; Sun, 17 Jan 93 10:13:48 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 17 Jan 93 06:08:46 GMT
From: adobe!usenet@decwrl.dec.com  (Zalman Stern)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Subject: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?
Message-Id: <1993Jan17.060846.8650@adobe.com>
References: <16470@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

In article <16470@auspex-gw.auspex.com> guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris) writes:
> >We haven't though ignored our 'historical lossage' and the following is
> >working for us now (with X11 environment):
> 
> Actually, I'd assumed that the "historical lossage" to which Zalman
> Stern was referring wasn't the resize operations, but the lack of dummy
> resize operations in "im.c" - i.e.,
> 
>  > > These methods don't seem to be fully integrated into the system  
because
>  > > they don't appear in xim.ch and you would also expect there to be  
empty,
>  > > dummy routines in im.c that these would override.  This might imply  
that
>  > > there is a problem with these routines.... anybody know?
>  > 
>  > My guess: they're basically impossible to implement under wm. I.e.  
>  > historical lossage that you can ignore.
> 
> was intended to say "the only problem with those routines is that
> they're impossible to implement under 'wm', so the lack of the dummy
> routines in 'im.c', and the lack of declarations in 'xim.ch', is
> historical lossage which you may ignore; go ahead and make the resize
> operations work under X, and don't worry about 'wm'."

Yeah. That says it better than even my second try.

> Then again, I consider the fact that Andrew's keyboard event input model
> is based on a Heathkit H19-style stream of input characters to be
> another example of "wm"-based historical lossage; I wish its keyboard
> input event model were better tied to modern window systems, including
> but not limited to X....

I find it somewhat sad to read this newsgroup and see people discuss the  
same changes we discussed when I was working on the project and very little  
in the way of interesting new work. (E.g. Rob Ryan's static linking post.  
Especially since many OSes now implement dynamic loading as a system  
service.) The user interface has evolved little and the software written in  
ATK is hardly interesting compared to commercial products I use on a daily  
basis.
--
Zalman Stern		   zalman@adobe.com		    (415) 962 3824
Adobe Systems, 1585 Charleston Rd., POB 7900, Mountain View, CA 94039-7900
  "Yeah. Ask 'em if they'll upgrade my shifters too." Bill Watterson
\enddata{text822, 106057}
\begindata{text822, 109594}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po2.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/cfKPP7m00Uda4McU4b>;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 14:43:04 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.YfKPM::00UddIhPU42>;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 14:39:57 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA11611@X> for info-andrew; Sun, 17 Jan 93 14:39:38 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA27625; Sun, 17 Jan 93 11:37:40 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 17 Jan 93 13:18:23 GMT
From: xrxedds!xrxedds!liebman@uunet.uu.net  (Chris Liebman)
Organization: Xerox EDDS, Herndon, Va.
Subject: color printing
Message-Id: <LIEBMAN.93Jan17081823@zod.xrxedds.UUCP>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu


Hello world,
Has anybody gotten color printing to work yet?  While looking at the
font mapping table I noticed #ifdefs for  COLORPRINTINGWORKS.  It
almost works!

1) It *prints* the string "0 0 0 setrgbcolor" on the paper instead of
   passing it along to the postscript printer.

2) The color values are always 0 ie. "0 0 0". 

I really have not looked in to these too far yet.  Just thought I'd
ask to see if anyone else had gotten them to work. 

					-- Chris

--
Chris Liebman		Work			Home
Internet:	liebman@xrxedds.com	liebman@zod.xrxedds.com
UUCP:		uunet!xrxedds!liebman	uunet!bopper!zod!liebman
Phone:		1-703-787-2032		1-703-378-2715
\enddata{text822, 109594}
\begindata{text822, 111514}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po2.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/kfKQiIO00UdaEQtE4z>;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 16:11:48 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.ofKQgxm00UddAqLE4x>;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 16:10:22 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA13912@X> for info-andrew; Sun, 17 Jan 93 16:10:12 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA29903; Sun, 17 Jan 93 12:58:33 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 17 Jan 93 07:15:25 GMT
From: rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu  (Robert Andrew Ryan)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Subject: (was: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?)
Message-Id: <sfKNEhm00WoiR0akp6@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <16470@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

Excerpts from netnews.comp.soft-sys.andrew: 17-Jan-93 Re: Solution: How
to resize.. Zalman Stern@adobe.com (2188)

> I find it somewhat sad to read this newsgroup and see people discuss the  
> same changes we discussed when I was working on the project and very little  
> in the way of interesting new work.

What work would be interesting?  The work that is interesting for us is
that which Andrew Consortium members express an interest in.    Six
major projects undertaken during this past year were a real drawing
editor(a great improvement over zip), support for color images,
conversion of keyboard macros to ness code, a preferences editor, new
parsing and lexing classes, and reference counting for observable
objects.  (So that any code can ensure that an observable will not be
destroyed until that particular code, or object, is done with it.)

In the particular case of static loading, until relatively recently the
unportability of the dynamic loading code wasn't a very important issue.
 It was just never mission critical that ATK be able to run a platform
without dynamic loading.  I almost wish it had been, arranging for
static linking of arbitrary sets of classes is turning out to be very
tedious.  (There are many duplicate global symbols...)  

Excerpts from netnews.comp.soft-sys.andrew: 17-Jan-93 Re: Solution: How
to resize.. Zalman Stern@adobe.com (2188)

> The user interface has evolved little and the software written in  
> ATK is hardly interesting compared to commercial products I use on a daily  
> basis.

I'm not sure what evolution should take place in ATK's user interface. 
We have added a menubar (and finally added keybinding on the menu
cards,both pulldown and popup), 3d look for dialogs, and scrollbars. 
The keyboard macros to ness converter probably represents the most
profound evolution of ATK's interface in recent years.  Any comments on
where the UI should go?

-Rob Ryan
Andrew Consortium
\enddata{text822, 111514}
\begindata{text822, 114850}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 23052;andrew.cmu.edu;Daniel C. Wang
Received: from unix9.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/cfKS0Fq00WB:8B4k5h>;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 17:39:14 -0500 (EST)
Received: from unix9.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr15/dw3u/.Outgoing/QF.sfKRzbm00WB:MAc2Yn>;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 17:38:39 -0500 (EST)
Received: from BatMail.robin.v2.13.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.unix9.andrew.cmu.edu.pmax.ul4
          via MS.5.6.unix9.andrew.cmu.edu.pmax_ul4;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 17:38:31 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <8fKRzbi00WB_8Ac2Rl@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 17:38:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "Daniel C. Wang" <dw3u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (was: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?)
In-Reply-To: <sfKNEhm00WoiR0akp6@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <16470@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
	<sfKNEhm00WoiR0akp6@andrew.cmu.edu>


rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu  (Robert Andrew Ryan) writes:
> Excerpts from netnews.comp.soft-sys.andrew: 17-Jan-93 Re: Solution: How
> to resize.. Zalman Stern@adobe.com (2188)
> 
> > I find it somewhat sad to read this newsgroup and see people discuss the  
> > same changes we discussed when I was working on the project and very little  
> > in the way of interesting new work.
> 
> What work would be interesting?  The work that is interesting for us is

My $.02. 
1. An extension language other than ness. I'd prefer something along
the lines of lisp/scheme or Tcl.

2.  A better editor than ez.  Which like all other ATK apps has been
called a 'proof of concept application.' I would like to see something
along the lines of a multimedia emacs.

3. A port to C++ ( This is more wishful thinking than a request)
 
> Excerpts from netnews.comp.soft-sys.andrew: 17-Jan-93 Re: Solution: How
> to resize.. Zalman Stern@adobe.com (2188)
> 
> > The user interface has evolved little and the software written in  
> > ATK is hardly interesting compared to commercial products I use on a daily > > basis.
> 
> I'm not sure what evolution should take place in ATK's user interface. 
> We have added a menubar (and finally added keybinding on the menu
> cards,both pulldown and popup), 3d look for dialogs, and scrollbars. 
> The keyboard macros to ness converter probably represents the most
> profound evolution of ATK's interface in recent years.  Any comments on
> where the UI should go?
> 
> -Rob Ryan
> Andrew Consortium
\enddata{text822, 114850}
\begindata{text822, 117568}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 5904;andrew.cmu.edu;Robert Andrew Ryan
Received: from atk.itc.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/IfKSp5W00WoiN0AE8W>;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 18:35:33 -0500 (EST)
Received: from atk.itc.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr20/rr2b/.Outgoing/QF.wfKSoT600Woi0S81B=>;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 18:34:55 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.atk.itc.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.atk.itc.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 18:34:54 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <IfKSoSm00WoiQS815g@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 18:34:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Andrew Ryan <rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 4012+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: "Daniel C. Wang" <dw3u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (was: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?)
CC: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <gfKSCUO00WB_QAc2ph@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <16470@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
	<sfKNEhm00WoiR0akp6@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<gfKSCUO00WB_QAc2ph@andrew.cmu.edu>

\begindata{text,538929552}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 17-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: How.. 
Daniel C. Wang (2437)}


\quotation{I've recently begun playing around with Tk/Tcl, and find the 
ability

}\quotation{to rapidly prototype UI's with a simple scripting language a major

}\quotation{plus.  Ideally ATK could adopt this approach and provided a

}\quotation{prototyping language that would allow developers to manipulate the

}\quotation{various ATK primitives with some sort of extension language (other

}\quotation{than NESS).  I'm not very familiar with the ATK source or 
internals so

}\quotation{I don't know how difficult this would be.  But I would be nice to 
see

}\quotation{some ATK stuff incoperated with a languae like Tcl.  

}\excerptedcaption{
Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 17-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: 
How.. Daniel C. Wang (1516)}


\quotation{My $.02. 

}\quotation{1. An extension language other than ness. I'd prefer something 
along

}\quotation{the lines of lisp/scheme or Tcl.

}
Such a system is one of our long term goals (ie one of the things we might get 
to if one or more Andrew Consortium members will let us take the time to do it 
:-)  If it ever gets done Ness will more than likely be the extension language 
of choice.


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 17-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: How.. 
Daniel C. Wang (2437)}


\quotation{One neat UI feature that Tcl/Tk offers was 'tear off' menus.  Which

}\quotation{allow you to tear off a menu card from the pull down menus and

}\quotation{manipulate it like a sperate window.}


I believe tear-off menus are be problematical at best under X, and worse under 
ATK.  For example, most window managers will insist on decorating any 
top-level non-override redirect windows.  But the ICCCM specifies that an 
override-redirect window should be left up only so long as the application has 
the keyboard and mouse grabbed.  There is the concept of transient windows 
which receive less decoration, but it will then be necessary for anyone using 
tear-off menus to figure out how to customize their window manager setup to 
remove unwanted decoarations.  Finally there is the dynamic nature of the ATK 
menu system, the set of menus available changes based on which view has the 
input focus, and often based on the view's state.  (e.g. whether or not there 
is any text selected.)  Inactive menu cards could be greyed out, or iconified, 
but they may also need to change size as items are added or deleted.  How does 
Tk/Tcl do tear-offs?


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 17-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: How.. 
Daniel C. Wang (2437)}


\quotation{BTW Since ATK was develped before X11 became somewhat it must 
contain a

}\quotation{good deal of code written to be backward compatible with other

}\quotation{windowing systems.

}
Actually there isn't all that much, aside from the wmc specific code which is 
all in one directory.  Our policy at this point seems to be to leave ATK 
usable under wmc, but not allow wmc to limit the functionality we offer to X 
users.

\excerptedcaption{
Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 17-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: 
How.. Daniel C. Wang (1516)}



\quotation{2.  A better editor than ez.  Which like all other ATK apps has 
been

}\quotation{called a 'proof of concept application.' I would like to see 
something

}\quotation{along the lines of a multimedia emacs.}


In what ways is ez not already a multimedia emacs?  True ez lacks a number of 
features of emacs, but then emacs lacks many features of ez.  (For example an 
indication that it is working...., one of my biggest annoyances with gnu is 
the random lock-up, usually due to a file server or network glitch.  At least 
with ATK when this happens the busy cursor is usually up and will go back to 
the normal one when it is back.)  Ness allows you to manipulate styled text 
and embedded insets in documents...  One of the weaknesses which has always 
annoyed me however is that in general only procedures generally useful to be 
bound to keys are available to Ness scripts, which may find different 
procedures useful.

\excerptedcaption{
Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 17-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: 
How.. Daniel C. Wang (1516)}


\quotation{3. A port to C++ ( This is more wishful thinking than a request)

}
 Would this be useful/beneficial to you?  If so how?


Thanks for the input.

-Rob Ryan

Andrew Consortium

\enddata{text,538929552}

\enddata{text822, 117568}
\begindata{text822, 123456}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 23052;andrew.cmu.edu;Daniel C. Wang
Received: from yen.mg.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/UfKUe8G00aw6AErE4l>;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 20:40:24 -0500 (EST)
Received: from yen.mg.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr15/dw3u/.Outgoing/QF.wfKUdJ200aw60Ejkco>;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 20:39:33 -0500 (EST)
Received: from BatMail.robin.v2.13.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.yen.mg.andrew.cmu.edu.pmax.ul4
          via MS.5.6.yen.mg.andrew.cmu.edu.pmax_ul4;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 20:39:32 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <MfKUdIy00aw68EjkUl@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 20:39:32 -0500 (EST)
From: "Daniel C. Wang" <dw3u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Robert Andrew Ryan <rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (was: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?)
In-Reply-To: <IfKSoSm00WoiQS815g@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <16470@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
	<sfKNEhm00WoiR0akp6@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<gfKSCUO00WB_QAc2ph@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<IfKSoSm00WoiQS815g@andrew.cmu.edu>

Robert Andrew Ryan <rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
 17-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: How.. Daniel C.
> Wang (2437)
> 
> In what ways is ez not already a multimedia emacs?  True ez lacks a
> number of features of emacs, but then emacs lacks many features of ez. 

The biggest gripe I have with ATK in general and ez is that there is
no extension language which *I* can comprehend.  I haven't had the
time or patience to learn NESS. Perhaps some better documentation
would help.  I'm always frustrated when I run across the infamous
"There are no short term plans to complete the documentaion..." (At
least in the ATK stuff they have installed here in the Andrew cell) 

With emacs, for the most part, if I don't like the way it's done, I
can change the damm thing to my hearts content.  To do that sort of
thing with an ATK application seems to require me to rewrite the
source code.

Ideally I could add an extension to ez, which would present me with a
few icons that I could click on to preform a task, like double space
my text. Have you ever tried to expalin to someone of moderate
experince how to double space text in ez, and have it *look* doubled
space. It would probably goes like, "Well, select edit styles, and
wait for the buffer menu editor to pop-up, click on the word (i.e. not
icon) that says <no menu> then pick 24 as your line spacing ...."  The
above example says to me that the UI needs work.  

> (For example an indication that it is working...., one of my biggest
> annoyances with gnu is the random lock-up, usually due to a file server
> or network glitch.  At least with ATK when this happens the busy cursor
> is usually up and will go back to the normal one when it is back.)  Ness
> allows you to manipulate styled text and embedded insets in documents...
>  One of the weaknesses which has always annoyed me however is that in
> general only procedures generally useful to be bound to keys are
> available to Ness scripts, which may find different procedures useful.

As I said I haven't looked all that much into NESS other than a few
examples like a Ness calculator which seemed incomprehensible to me.
   

> > Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 17-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re:
> Solution: How.. Daniel C. Wang (1516)
> > > 3. A port to C++ ( Thisis more wishful thinking than a request) 
> > Would this be useful/beneficial to you?  If so how?  
> 

I'm not that much into C++, but I belive it might encourage other
devlopers to intergrate ATK into their environments.  It's hard 
enough learning the idosycrasies (sp) of one OOP environment only to
have to learn a new one to use some of the intergrated multimedia
features which ATK offers.


PS I've been trying to learn a bit about ATK programming in general
but unfortuantely N. Borenstien's book on ATK development is checkout of
the library. The few "Hello world" examples in the andrew cell look
neat, but with scant documentation it's hard for me to figure out what
is going on.
-----------------
Daniel Wang










\enddata{text822, 123456}
\begindata{text822, 127794}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 5904;andrew.cmu.edu;Robert Andrew Ryan
Received: from atk.itc.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/UfKV7o:00WoiNJ8k9a>;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 21:12:04 -0500 (EST)
Received: from atk.itc.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr20/rr2b/.Outgoing/QF.4fKV7P600Woi0S1FU1>;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 21:11:39 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.atk.itc.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.atk.itc.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Sun, 17 Jan 1993 21:11:38 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <UfKV7Oi00Woi0S1FN6@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 21:11:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Andrew Ryan <rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 2567+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (was: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?)
In-Reply-To: <MfKUdIy00aw68EjkUl@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <16470@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
	<sfKNEhm00WoiR0akp6@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<gfKSCUO00WB_QAc2ph@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<IfKSoSm00WoiQS815g@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<MfKUdIy00aw68EjkUl@andrew.cmu.edu>

\begindata{text,538942816}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 17-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: How.. 
Daniel C. Wang (3011)}


\quotation{The biggest gripe I have with ATK in general and ez is that there 
is

}\quotation{no extension language which *I* can comprehend.  

}
There seem to be alot of people who think lisp/scheme are too esoteric to be 
used by ordinary people.  I don't know if that is true or not, I could live 
with a small scheme like language.  (no minutes of garbage collection for me 
though...)


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 17-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: How.. 
Daniel C. Wang (3011)}


\quotation{I haven't had the time or patience to learn NESS.

}
Indeed it may not be worth your time,  in general you will probably be able to 
do things faster with gnu and unix utilities.  Unless of course you want to 
deal with styled text.  (Speaking of which I should see about getting a 
function into ness to read metamail richtext...)


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 17-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: How.. 
Daniel C. Wang (3011)}


\quotation{Perhaps some better documentation would help. 

}
Better end user documentation is in the works.  Whether it will cover the 
level of detail needed to be able to effectively use ness I don't know. 


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 17-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: How.. 
Daniel C. Wang (3011)}


\quotation{  I'm always frustrated when I run across the infamous

}\quotation{"There are no short term plans to complete the documentaion..." 
(At

}\quotation{least in the ATK stuff they have installed here in the Andrew 
cell) 

}
Unfortunately this situation is likely to remain for awhile yet.  If you'd 
like to look at a sample of what a previous beginning ATK programmer did, you 
might check out /afs/andrew/system/src/contributed/ks.  (It's a "Kitchen 
Sink", implementing Mac style backspace, and a few other odds and ends.)  I 
think one of the failings of Nathaniel's book is the focus on creating an 
inset.  Many people could probably do everything they need/want with packages 
of proctable entries.


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 17-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: How.. 
Daniel C. Wang (3011)}


\quotation{With emacs, for the most part, if I don't like the way it's done, I

}\quotation{can change the damm thing to my hearts content.  To do that sort 
of

}\quotation{thing with an ATK application seems to require me to rewrite the

}\quotation{source code.

}
True, comes from writing the extension language first, and basing the editor 
on it.  vs.. writing a bunch of C code and then realizing "Oops, we need an 
extension language."    (My interpretation...)


Updating the look, feel and appearance of lookz is on the list of projects 
awaiting time...  


Thanks for the interest, I wish ATK had more to offer than it does at present.


-Rob

\enddata{text,538942816}

\enddata{text822, 127794}
\begindata{text822, 132102}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/cfKaQVa00UddA0ZU4W>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 03:15:29 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q003/QF.YfKaLja00Udd00XU4Q>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 03:10:23 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA00137@X> for info-andrew; Mon, 18 Jan 93 03:10:18 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA18364; Mon, 18 Jan 93 00:06:24 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 18 Jan 93 06:01:48 GMT
From: adobe!usenet@decwrl.dec.com  (Zalman Stern)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Subject: Re: (was: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?)
Message-Id: <1993Jan18.060148.19360@adobe.com>
References: <UfKV7Oi00Woi0S1FN6@andrew.cmu.edu>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

In article <UfKV7Oi00Woi0S1FN6@andrew.cmu.edu> rr2b+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Robert  
Andrew Ryan) writes:
> True, comes from writing the extension language first, and basing the
> editor on it.  vs.. writing a bunch of C code and then realizing "Oops,
> we need an extension language."    (My interpretation...)

No, this wasn't an accident. ATK was designed with the notion that dynamic  
loading of insets and other types of code provided enough extensibility to  
alleviate the need for an extension language. (Which would have among other  
things, produced a larger toolkit than we had in mind. At the time, a  
minimal ATK application was supposed to run in 200k of memory.) And to a  
large extent this has worked. Ez has many extensions that one can load (a  
few search packages, ispell support, ctext, compile, etc.).

For all that elisp gives emacs, it has done little that is of interest to  
non-hackers. There is a great deal of comlexity in the program because of  
the extension mechanism and the user interface is not extensible in a  
meaningful fashion. (Look at the lack of GUI features in emacs. Look at the  
effort that went into epoch.)

Almost no sucessful commercial graphical user interface applications have an  
extension language. (AutoCAD is the only one I can think of.) Many of them  
have so called "plug-in" interfaces where one can dynamically load extension  
code. Many have macro languages which can be handled by proctable like  
machinery.
--
Zalman Stern		   zalman@adobe.com		    (415) 962 3824
Adobe Systems, 1585 Charleston Rd., POB 7900, Mountain View, CA 94039-7900
  "Yeah. Ask 'em if they'll upgrade my shifters too." Bill Watterson
\enddata{text822, 132102}
\begindata{text822, 135149}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/4fKbbUG00UdZEW5E9t>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 04:35:28 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.YfKbaiO00UdbMjC05o>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 04:34:40 -0500 (EST)
ReSent-Message-ID: <Added.YfKbada00UdbEjBk5G@andrew.cmu.edu>
Received: from neptun.kapsch.co.at by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA12077@X> for dw3u+; Mon, 18 Jan 93 04:34:23 EST
Return-Path:   @neptun.kapsch.co.at:fodatec@harare.kapsch.co.at
Resent-Date:   Mon, 18 Jan 1993 10:35 MET
Received: from harare.kapsch.co.at [148.198.10.5] by neptun.kapsch.co.at
           with SMTP-VMS via TCP/IP; Mon, 18 Jan 1993 10:35 MET
Received: by harare.kapsch.co.at (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA12175; Mon, 18 Jan 93 10:34:08 +0100
Received: from Messages.7.15.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.harare.kapsch.co.at.sun4.41
          via MS.5.6.harare.kapsch.co.at.sun4_41;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 10:34:08 +0100 (MET)
Message-Id: <kfKbaESIlUc50j_1Y_@harare.kapsch.co.at>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 10:34:08 +0100 (MET)
From: Fodatec Project <fodatec@harare.kapsch.co.at>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 1850+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: Robert Andrew Ryan <rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
        Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
        "Daniel C. Wang" <dw3u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (was: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?)
In-Reply-To: <MfKUdIy00aw68EjkUl@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <16470@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
	<sfKNEhm00WoiR0akp6@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<gfKSCUO00WB_QAc2ph@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<IfKSoSm00WoiQS815g@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<MfKUdIy00aw68EjkUl@andrew.cmu.edu>

\begindata{text,1565048}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from info-andrew: 17-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: 
How.. "Daniel C. Wang"@andrew. (3012)}


\quotation{> > > 3. A port to C++ ( Thisis more wishful thinking than a 
request) 

}\quotation{> > Would this be useful/beneficial to you?  If so how?  

}\quotation{> 

}
\quotation{I'm not that much into C++, but I belive it might encourage other

}\quotation{devlopers to intergrate ATK into their environments.  It's hard 

}\quotation{enough learning the idosycrasies (sp) of one OOP environment only 
to

}\quotation{have to learn a new one to use some of the intergrated multimedia

}\quotation{features which ATK offers.

}

Im work with ATK for two years. My experience I obtained in these years was, 
that ATK class precompiler is even less than a "poor man's object oriented 
language". A very important missing feature is the inheritance of data. 
Although data can be addressed from subclasses, you have to know were they 
first occur, so you are able to address them with eg. 
self->header.parentclass.xy . In object oriented languages all features of a 
parentclass should be iherited!

Beside that "class" is a precompiler, compiling into dangerous defines in *.ih 
and *.eh files, complicated to use.

Concerning inheritance of data, this should not be to hard to implement, so 
some data of the parentclass could be referenced with eg. self_xy.

These are two points more to the statement above, which I support as well.


One additional thing I do not quite understand:

Was it realy useful to devide objects in views and data parts, which in my 
opinion is no good OOP design style. Should not all features of one object 
representing a part of the world be kept in one object?

If we realy want to have some "data object" with several different "view 
objects", what argues against to implement a subclass and overwrite the 
display methods. ( Besides I think this feature isn't heavily used )


Christian Sodomka

(e-mail Christian.Sodomka@kapsch.co.at)\
\enddata{text,1565048}

\enddata{text822, 135149}
\begindata{text822, 139234}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 23052;andrew.cmu.edu;Daniel C. Wang
Received: from ceti.weh.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/UfKgEhS00VovQOdE5M>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 09:52:30 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ceti.weh.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr15/dw3u/.Outgoing/QF.4fKgBjG00VovMOYVd3>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 09:49:20 -0500 (EST)
Received: from BatMail.robin.v2.13.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.ceti.weh.andrew.cmu.edu.pmax.ul4
          via MS.5.6.ceti.weh.andrew.cmu.edu.pmax_ul4;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 09:49:18 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <gfKgBii00VovQOYVVf@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 09:49:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "Daniel C. Wang" <dw3u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (was: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?)
In-Reply-To: <1993Jan18.060148.19360@adobe.com>
References: <UfKV7Oi00Woi0S1FN6@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<1993Jan18.060148.19360@adobe.com>




adobe!usenet@decwrl.dec.com  (Zalman Stern) writes:
> In article <UfKV7Oi00Woi0S1FN6@andrew.cmu.edu> rr2b+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Robert  
> Andrew Ryan) writes:
> > True, comes from writing the extension language first, and basing the
> > editor on it.  vs.. writing a bunch of C code and then realizing "Oops,
> > we need an extension language."    (My interpretation...)
> 

[Stuff deleted]
> 
> For all that elisp gives emacs, it has done little that is of interest to  
> non-hackers. There is a great deal of comlexity in the program because of  
> the extension mechanism and the user interface is not extensible in a  
> meaningful fashion. (Look at the lack of GUI features in emacs. Look at the  
> effort that went into epoch.)
> 

The user interface of EMACS was developed primarly for terminal
character based displays, and the UI makes sense in that environment.
It is unfair to IMHO to critisize EMACS lack of GUI features.

I've honestly don't believe that an extension langauge will be of all
that much interest to non-hackers, but for hackers and developers a well
designed extension language can be used to rapidly prototype new
ideas, and to compensate for the developers mistake.

I remember that there was a serious request once to have seleted text
deletable ala Mac, all the suggestions on how to impelement this
required a moderate rewrite of the ez code and a recompile.  Ideally
if ATK had a sufficently robust extension system problems like this
would be solved without a need to touch and C code, in a matter of seconds.



\enddata{text822, 139234}
\begindata{text822, 142002}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/gfKgLQe00Udb4=w058>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 09:59:41 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q000/QF.YfKgI4W00UddIJo05W>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 09:56:07 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA05570@X> for info-andrew; Mon, 18 Jan 93 09:55:47 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA01151; Mon, 18 Jan 93 06:50:01 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 18 Jan 93 15:24:39 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!rsre!ad4su1!rigotti@uunet.uu.net  (Kevin Rigotti)
Organization: Defence Research Agency
Subject: EOS for reviewing research papers?
Message-Id: <RIGOTTI.93Jan18152439@ad4su1>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

If anyone has experience of using the Educational Online System for
making comments on technical papers rather than student's assignments
I'd like to know what they thought of it.

I don't want to have all the hassle of installing it and getting
people to use it if it isn't really appropriate. I think what I'm 
really asking is can it cope with one submission being reviewed by
several different people. 

My desk is permanently hidden by paper at present so any ray of hope
would be very welcome.

Kevin

--
Email => rigotti@hermes.mod.uk
Fax   => +44 (0)684 894109.
Post  => ATC Systems Division, DRA Malvern, Malvern WR14 3PS, England
--
\enddata{text822, 142002}
\begindata{text822, 143939}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po2.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/YfKh2e600UdaQG8E9d>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 10:45:46 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.AfKh26G00Udb8FqU5J>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 10:45:11 -0500 (EST)
Received: from vnet.ibm.com by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA04565@X> for info-andrew+; Mon, 18 Jan 93 10:44:57 EST
Received: from RCHLAND by vnet.ibm.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6288;
   Mon, 18 Jan 93 10:42:28 EST
Reply-To: "Robert Kemmetmueller" <rskm@rchland.VNET.IBM.COM>
Received: by po1.rchland.ibm.com (5.51/4.7) id <AA03261> for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu; Mon, 18 Jan 93 09:39:02 CST
Received: via switchmail; Mon, 18 Jan 1993 09:38:58 -0600 (CST)
Received: from coredump.rchland.ibm.com via qmail
          ID </afs/rchland.ibm.com/service/mailqs/q001/QF.kfKgvdE91JbQEiUll1>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 09:38:17 -0600 (CST)
Received: from coredump.rchland.ibm.com via qmail
          ID </afs/rchland.ibm.com/usr3/rskm/.Outgoing/QF.0fKgvcI91JbQRRMXYe>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 09:38:16 -0600 (CST)
Received: from Messages.7.15.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.coredump.rchland.ibm.com.rs.aix32
          via MS.5.6.coredump.rchland.ibm.com.rs_aix32;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 09:38:16 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <QfKgvc891JbQ9RMXRi@rchland.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 09:38:16 -0600 (CST)
From: Robert Kemmetmueller <rskm+@rchland.ibm.com>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 474+1
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: text822 (messages) bug
Cc: Bboard Service <bboard+advisor.dev.atk@rchland.ibm.com>

\begindata{text,538619776}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\define{center

attr:[Justification Centered Point 0]}
\define{footnote

attr:[Flags OverBar Int Set]
attr:[FontSize PreviousFontSize Point -2]}
\define{h

attr:[FontFamily rom Int 0]
attr:[FontSize ConstantFontSize Point 6]}
\define{a

attr:[Script PreviousScriptMovement Point -1]
attr:['color' '#F0A000']}
\define{b

attr:[Script PreviousScriptMovement Point -1]
attr:['color' '#E08000']}
\define{c

attr:[Script PreviousScriptMovement Point -1]
attr:['color' '#D06000']}
\define{d

attr:[Script PreviousScriptMovement Point -1]
attr:['color' '#C05000']}
\define{e

attr:[Script PreviousScriptMovement Point -2]
attr:['color' '#B03000']}
\define{f

attr:[Script PreviousScriptMovement Point 6]
attr:['color' '#A02000']}
\define{g

attr:['color' '#CD8500']}
\bold{-- text822 (I think) bug --}


My diagnosis \smaller{(guess)}:  it looks like text822 doesn't know how to
_Write itself properly outside the context of the \bold{messages} application.


To reproduce it:

\description{  * in \bold{messages}, select "Append to File".

  * \bold{ez} the resultant file, and "Save As" with a .d extension (to
compare later).

  * compare the two files.  \bold{ez} the .d file again.  What a mess!
 Datastream info shows up uninterpreted, etc etc.

}
Example:
\footnote{\
\begindata{fnote,539057664}
\textdsversion{12}
\define{typewriter
menu:[Font~1,Typewriter~40]
attr:[FontFace FixedFace Int Set]
attr:[FontFamily AndyType Int 0]}
\define{bold
menu:[Font~1,Bold~10]
attr:[FontFace Bold Int Set]}
\define{bigger
menu:[Font~1,Bigger~20]
attr:[FontSize PreviousFontSize Point 2]}


\typewriter{~>  \bold{ll SavedMess*}

-rw-r--r--   1 rskm     system      \bold{\bigger{1109}} Jan 14 10:53
SavedMessages

-rw-r--r--   1 rskm     system      \bold{\bigger{ 306}} Jan 14 10:53
SavedMessages.d

~>  \bold{cat SavedMessages}

\\begindata\{text822, 0\}

Return-path: <rskm+@rchland.ibm.com>

X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 2224;rchland.ibm.com;Robert Kemmetmueller

Received: from coredump.rchland.ibm.com via trymail

          ID </afs/rchland.ibm.com/usr3/rskm/Mailbox/MfJMzd891JbQBGFk4p>;

          Thu, 14 Jan 1993 10:08:09 -0600 (CST)

Received: from coredump.rchland.ibm.com via qmail

          ID </afs/rchland.ibm.com/usr3/rskm/.Outgoing/QF.sfJMzcc91JbQF63=kM>;

          Thu, 14 Jan 1993 10:08:08 -0600 (CST)

Received: from
Messages.7.15.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.coredump.rchland.ibm.com.rs.aix32

          via MS.5.6.coredump.rchland.ibm.com.rs_aix32;

          Thu, 14 Jan 1993 10:08:08 -0600 (CST)

Message-ID: <AfJMzcc91JbQN63=ce@rchland.ibm.com>

Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 10:08:08 -0600 (CST)

From: Robert Kemmetmueller <rskm+@rchland.ibm.com>

X-Andrew-Message-Size: 30+0

Content-Type: X-BE2; 12

If-Type-Unsupported: alter

To: Robert Kemmetmueller <rskm+@rchland.ibm.com>

Subject: test


\\begindata\{text,538784768\}

\\textdsversion\{12\}

\\template\{messages\}

blah blah blah


this is a test


\\enddata\{text,538784768\}


\\enddata\{text822, 0\}

~>  \bold{cat SavedMessages.d}

\\begindata\{text822, 537684608\}


Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 10:08:08 -0600 (CST)

From: Robert Kemmetmueller <rskm+@rchland.ibm.com>

To: Robert Kemmetmueller <rskm+@rchland.ibm.com>

Subject: test

blah blah blah

this is a test

\^{}

\\textdsversion\{12\}

\\template\{messages\}

\\define\{global

\}

\\enddata\{text822,537684608\}

~> \bold{ \
}}\enddata{fnote,539057664}
\view{fnotev,539057664,3,0,0}}

\center{
\h{\f{R\e{o\d{b\c{er\b{t K\a{emme}tmu}el}l}e}r

}\g{rskm@rchland

3-4968

}}}\enddata{text,538619776}

\enddata{text822, 143939}
\begindata{text822, 149520}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/gfKh7VG00UdZEA209V>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 10:50:57 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.MfKh6KK00UdbMGGE4P>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 10:49:43 -0500 (EST)
Received: from vnet.ibm.com by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA04674@X> for info-andrew+; Mon, 18 Jan 93 10:49:34 EST
Received: from RCHLAND by vnet.ibm.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6373;
   Mon, 18 Jan 93 10:47:12 EST
Reply-To: "Todd Inglett" <tinglett@vnet.ibm.com>
Received: by po1.rchland.ibm.com (5.51/4.7) id <AA03357> for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu; Mon, 18 Jan 93 09:48:22 CST
Received: via switchmail; Mon, 18 Jan 1993 09:48:17 -0600 (CST)
Received: from andrew.rchland.ibm.com via qmail
          ID </afs/rchland.ibm.com/service/mailqs/q000/QF.ofKh4R491JY7IsdkBL>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 09:47:41 -0600 (CST)
Received: from andrew.rchland.ibm.com via qmail
          ID </afs/rchland.ibm.com/usr3/tinglett/.Outgoing/QF.kfKh4Pw91JY758J3Qx>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 09:47:40 -0600 (CST)
Received: from Messages.7.15.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.andrew.rchland.ibm.com.rs.aix32
          via MS.5.6.andrew.rchland.ibm.com.rs_aix32;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 09:47:39 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <YfKh4P891JY7J8J3FM@rchland.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 09:47:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Todd Inglett <tinglett+@rchland.ibm.com>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 1343+1
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: C++ and ATK (was Re: (was: Re: Solution: How to ...))
In-Reply-To: <kfKbaESIlUc50j_1Y_@harare.kapsch.co.at>
References: <16470@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
	<sfKNEhm00WoiR0akp6@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<gfKSCUO00WB_QAc2ph@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<IfKSoSm00WoiQS815g@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<MfKUdIy00aw68EjkUl@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<kfKbaESIlUc50j_1Y_@harare.kapsch.co.at>

\begindata{text,538944512}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\define{footnote

attr:[Flags OverBar Int Set]
attr:[FontSize PreviousFontSize Point -2]}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from ext.misc.info-andrew: 18-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re:
Solution: How.. Fodatec Project@harare.k (1850+0)}


\quotation{Im work with ATK for two years. My experience I obtained in these
years was, that ATK class precompiler is even less than a "poor man's object
oriented language". A very important missing feature is the inheritance of
data.

}
The Andrew Consortium is already looking at the possibility of C++ for the
toolkit.  Most of the advantages are political (of course), but you do bring
up at least one point that a ``real'' OO language can offer.  Other advantages
are from the additional tools that can be purchased for C++ designing and
programming.  Anyone care to make additional
comments?\footnote{\
\begindata{fnote,539708672}
\textdsversion{12}
Without starting a religious war, please!\
\enddata{fnote,539708672}
\view{fnotev,539708672,0,0,0}}


\quotation{One additional thing I do not quite understand:

}\quotation{Was it realy useful to devide objects in views and data parts,
which in my opinion is no good OOP design style. Should not all features of
one object representing a part of the world be kept in one object?

}\quotation{If we realy want to have some "data object" with several different
"view objects", what argues against to implement a subclass and overwrite the
display methods. ( Besides I think this feature isn't heavily used )

}
This is much more used that you realize.  Try hitting ^X2 in a window once and
see what happens.  You couldn't easily do this without the dataobject/view
design.


-todd inglett

\enddata{text,538944512}

\enddata{text822, 149520}
\begindata{text822, 153500}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 5904;andrew.cmu.edu;Robert Andrew Ryan
Received: from atk.itc.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/wfKhS:m00WoiFQXE5R>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 11:15:07 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from atk.itc.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr20/rr2b/.Outgoing/QF.wfKhRae00WoiNCJ1Qj>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 11:14:30 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.atk.itc.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.atk.itc.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 11:14:30 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <EfKhRaO00Woi1CJ1I0@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 11:14:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Andrew Ryan <rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 2413+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (was: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?)
In-Reply-To: <kfKbaESIlUc50j_1Y_@harare.kapsch.co.at>
References: <16470@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
	<sfKNEhm00WoiR0akp6@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<gfKSCUO00WB_QAc2ph@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<IfKSoSm00WoiQS815g@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<MfKUdIy00aw68EjkUl@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<kfKbaESIlUc50j_1Y_@harare.kapsch.co.at>

\begindata{text,538876148}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 18-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: How.. 
Fodatec Project@harare.k (1850+0)}


\quotation{A very important missing feature is the inheritance of data. 
Although data can be addressed from subclasses, you have to know were they 
first occur, so you are able to address them with eg. 
self->header.parentclass.xy . In object oriented languages all features of a 
parentclass should be iherited!

}
True, but an important constraint during the design of class was to stay as 
close to C as possible.  Another constraint was simplicity of the class 
preprocessor itself, which prevented the inclusion of a complete type parser 
such as would be needed to completely automate all access to members.  The 
usual technique I use when I need to access the data of a super class is:


struct superclass *sc=(struct superclass *)self;


Not ideal perhaps, but much more readable to me than self->header.parentclass.


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 18-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: How.. 
Fodatec Project@harare.k (1850+0)}


\quotation{Was it realy useful to devide objects in views and data parts, 
which in my opinion is no good OOP design style.

}
I believe the view/data separation was a very good decision.  Where I think it 
fell down was in not allowing for view data to be saved.  With more 
traditional toolkits you are often forced to use potentially circular 
callbacks to keep two different kinds of visual elements in sync.  (Ie A tells 
B to update, B has to somehow know that when it is told to update by A it 
shouldn't tell A to update..)  If the elements are views on the same 
dataobject the problem is solved trivially.  Also, it's not clear to me how to 
support multiple window systems in one set of compiled binaries without the 
view/data separation.  Also how would you go about sharing one set of data 
across two different X displays if there is no view/data separation?  (See 
^U^X2 in ez.)  Another example where view/data separation wins is if your goal 
is to produce as small an executable as possible for some data manipulation 
task, with no display required, with the degree of separation ATK maintains 
there is no need for the executable to be linked with the X libraries, or even 
the view code.


In UI design I believe the view/data dichotomy is really a fundamental truth. 
 There are aspects of objects which describe what is to be presented, there 
are other aspects which determine how that information should be presented.


-Rob\
\enddata{text,538876148}

\enddata{text822, 153500}
\begindata{text822, 157525}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po2.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/0fKlFQa00Uda4djk5M>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 15:34:39 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.IfKlEaK00Ui3QNkk4b>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 15:33:47 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q000/QF.kfKlBse00UddB5Vk4H>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 15:30:51 -0500 (EST)
Received: from relay2.UU.NET by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA17775@X> for info-andrew; Mon, 18 Jan 93 15:30:30 EST
Received: from uunet.uu.net (via LOCALHOST.UU.NET) by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP 
	(5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA21070; Mon, 18 Jan 93 15:04:35 -0500
Received: from lupine.UUCP by uunet.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL
	(queueing-rmail) id 150339.22213; Mon, 18 Jan 1993 15:03:39 EST
Received: from porter. ncd.com by lupine.ncd.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA05880; Mon, 18 Jan 93 11:54:43 PST
Received: by porter. ncd.com (16.8/SMI-4.1)
	id AA00607; Mon, 18 Jan 93 11:52:51 -0800
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.porter.HP9000.705
          via MS.5.6.porter.hp700;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 11:52:50 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <0fKkeG000000028kc0@porter>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 11:52:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Kris Olander <kriso@porter.ncd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Pemission denied (in flock...
Cc: Kris Olander <kriso@porter.ncd.com>

I came to work this morning, and for some strange reason, I can not
mark a message as being read.  I get a pop up dialogue box with
"Could not mark message # as 'seen'"  with a corresponding error 
message in the footer area saying,
"Error: Permission denied (in flock in OpenMSDirectory)"

I'm running Messages on an HP700 host with my home file system
NFS mounted from a Sun.  I can create, delete, and modify files in my
$HOME/.MESSAGES directory on the HP700 when I use generic 
UNIX commands so I don't think I'm getting restricted by NFS.  

One thing I should mention, the Messages process I was running last
night was killed this morning by a reboot so I didn't exit Messages
'cleanly'.

-Kris Olander
\enddata{text822, 157525}
\begindata{text822, 160079}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/AfKlRqu00UdZ4XU05X>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 15:47:51 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.wfKlQoS00UdbMroE54>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 15:46:45 -0500 (EST)
Received: from sadye.emba.uvm.edu by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA14284@X> for info-andrew+; Mon, 18 Jan 93 15:46:35 EST
Received: by sadye.emba.uvm.edu id AA06096
  (5.65/6.02); Mon, 18 Jan 93 15:45:55 -0500
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 15:45:55 -0500
From: Garrett.Wollman@UVM.EDU
Message-Id: <9301182045.AA06096@sadye.emba.uvm.edu>
To: Fodatec Project <fodatec@harare.kapsch.co.at>
Cc: info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: (was: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?)
In-Reply-To: <kfKbaESIlUc50j_1Y_@harare.kapsch.co.at>
References: <16470@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
	<IfKSoSm00WoiQS815g@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<MfKUdIy00aw68EjkUl@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<gfKSCUO00WB_QAc2ph@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<kfKbaESIlUc50j_1Y_@harare.kapsch.co.at>
	<sfKNEhm00WoiR0akp6@andrew.cmu.edu>

<<On Mon, 18 Jan 1993 10:34:08 +0100 (MET), Fodatec Project <fodatec@harare.kapsch.co.at> said:

> Was it realy useful to devide objects in views and data parts, which in my 
> opinion is no good OOP design style. Should not all features of one object 
> representing a part of the world be kept in one object?

> If we realy want to have some "data object" with several different "view 
> objects", what argues against to implement a subclass and overwrite the 
> display methods. ( Besides I think this feature isn't heavily used )

Well, this may not make too much sense to you, but it seems to be the
way that most X-based UI systems are going.  It's the fundamental
basis of InterViews (which is likely to become the standard C++
binding for X), and even many Xt programmers tend to use similar
techniques.

I'd say ATK is slightly ahead of the curve on this one.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman   | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... 
wollman@emba.uvm.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance.
uvm-gen!wollman      | It is a bond more powerful than absence.  We like people
UVM disagrees.       | who like Shashish.  - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant
\enddata{text822, 160079}
\begindata{text822, 162662}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 1447;andrew.cmu.edu;Gary Keim
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/UfKn:Ny00WohF4oE5s>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 17:43:38 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr13/gk5g/.Outgoing/QF.UfKn9Vm00Woh5UfJkz>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 17:42:42 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 17:42:41 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <MfKn9Ve00WohBUfJdF@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 17:42:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Gary Keim <gk5g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 1897+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: views & dataobjects
In-Reply-To: <kfKbaESIlUc50j_1Y_@harare.kapsch.co.at>
References: <MfKUdIy00aw68EjkUl@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<kfKbaESIlUc50j_1Y_@harare.kapsch.co.at>
Distribution: world

\begindata{text,538976520}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from netnews.comp.soft-sys.andrew: 18-Jan-93 Re: 
(was: Re: Solution: How.. Fodatec Project@HARARE.K (1867)}


\quotation{Was it realy useful to devide objects in views and data parts, 
which in

}\quotation{my opinion is no good OOP design style. Should not all features of 
one

}\quotation{object representing a part of the world be kept in one object?

}\quotation{If we realy want to have some "data object" with several different 
"view

}\quotation{objects", what argues against to implement a subclass and 
overwrite the

}\quotation{display methods. ( Besides I think this feature isn't heavily used 
)

}

In my opinion: yes.  This is a great feature.  Imagine that in your 
application builder you let the user determine the view onto some dataobject. 
 There may be many different ways to view the data but you can actually let 
the user see a bunch of different views and even manipulate the data via the 
view, so that they can have the best possible environment for their particular 
tastes.  An excerpt from the paper "Vee is Object-Oriented  -- Not!" which can 
be found in the Andrew Consortium 1992 Technical Conference proceding:


\leftindent{\italic{The (human) application builder uses the VEE interface 
builder (a program) in one of  two ways in order to equate two attributes. 
  The first way involves using the mouse to draw a connection between an 
attribute of one object to an attribute of another (or the same) object. 
  \bold{Alternately, an object's attribute may be selected and a menu used to 
choose any of a number of possible views of the attribute.}  For example, the 
\typewriter{height} attribute of a slider, as its type is integer, has a 
number of possible views, including an integer text field, a meter, a slider, 
a group of radio buttons presenting a choices of integers, a menu item to set 
the attribute to a particular value, and so on.  Choosing one of these 
automatically instantiates the selected object with the proper connection 
already made.}}


Gary Keim

Andrew Consortium

\enddata{text,538976520}

\enddata{text822, 162662}
\begindata{text822, 166067}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/ofKnlB200Ui34UUE5a>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 18:25:01 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.UfKnia200UdbN=fU5t>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 18:22:14 -0500 (EST)
Received: from alpha.xerox.com by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA19356@X> for info-andrew+; Mon, 18 Jan 93 18:21:50 EST
Received: from holmes.parc.xerox.com ([13.1.100.162]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <11569>; Mon, 18 Jan 1993 15:21:38 PST
Received: by holmes.parc.xerox.com id <25546>; Mon, 18 Jan 1993 15:21:32 -0800
Received: from Messages.7.15.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.holmes.parc.xerox.com.sun4.41
          via MS.5.6.holmes.parc.xerox.com.sun4_41;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 15:21:21 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <MfKnhlcB0KGWA3=ftA@holmes.parc.xerox.com>
Date: 	Mon, 18 Jan 1993 15:21:21 PST
Sender: Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
From: Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
To: "Daniel C. Wang" <dw3u+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
        Robert Andrew Ryan <rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (was: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?)
Cc: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <IfKSoSm00WoiQS815g@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <16470@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
	<sfKNEhm00WoiR0akp6@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<gfKSCUO00WB_QAc2ph@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<IfKSoSm00WoiQS815g@andrew.cmu.edu>

Excerpts from ext.andrew: 17-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: How.. Robert
Andrew Ryan@andre (4012+0)

> In what ways is ez not already a multimedia emacs?

Since you ask...

Two problems with EZ that people here comment on are:  1)  No UNDO. 
It's not a real editor unless it supports undo (preferably GNU
Emacs-style multiple-undo).  2)  No `pending delete', as in the Xerox
GlobalView and Apple Macintosh editors.

A third one that not so many people comment on (because they give up on
EZ before they get that far), is that the support for formatting printed
output is flakey -- that is, some things print, some things don't (try
cross references, for example), there's no way for non-troff hackers to
get various conference-and-journal-mandated formats (multiple columns,
for example), and so on.

Bill
\enddata{text822, 166067}
\begindata{text822, 168603}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po2.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/MfKntB200UdaIp909M>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 18:33:33 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.gfKnrG200UdbNAXU48>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 18:31:30 -0500 (EST)
Received: from alpha.xerox.com by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA19593@X> for rr2b+; Mon, 18 Jan 93 18:31:23 EST
Received: from holmes.parc.xerox.com ([13.1.100.162]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <11569>; Mon, 18 Jan 1993 15:31:09 PST
Received: by holmes.parc.xerox.com id <25546>; Mon, 18 Jan 1993 15:31:05 -0800
Received: from Messages.7.15.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.holmes.parc.xerox.com.sun4.41
          via MS.5.6.holmes.parc.xerox.com.sun4_41;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 15:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <4fKnqfcB0KGWM3=gon@holmes.parc.xerox.com>
Date: 	Mon, 18 Jan 1993 15:30:51 PST
Sender: Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
From: Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 556+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
        Robert Andrew Ryan <rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (was: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?)
In-Reply-To: <EfKhRaO00Woi1CJ1I0@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <16470@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
	<sfKNEhm00WoiR0akp6@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<gfKSCUO00WB_QAc2ph@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<IfKSoSm00WoiQS815g@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<MfKUdIy00aw68EjkUl@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<kfKbaESIlUc50j_1Y_@harare.kapsch.co.at>
	<EfKhRaO00Woi1CJ1I0@andrew.cmu.edu>

\begindata{text,2651336}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\define{global
}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from ext.andrew: 18-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: 
How.. Robert Andrew Ryan@andre (2413+0)}


\quotation{True, but an important constraint during the design of class was to 
stay as close to C as possible.

}
A decision which I've applauded for years now.


\quotation{I believe the view/data separation was a very good decision.  Where 
I think it fell down was in not allowing for view data to be saved.

}
Multiple inheritance would be a nice solution here.  Make a view object which 
was also a dataobject, and could have yet another type of view object looking 
at it.


Bill

\enddata{text,2651336}

\enddata{text822, 168603}
\begindata{text822, 171192}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 1447;andrew.cmu.edu;Gary Keim
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/QfKog9a00WohAzKU8W>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 19:27:53 -0500 (EST)
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr13/gk5g/.Outgoing/QF.4fKoepC00WohEqDG9g>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 19:26:29 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 19:26:29 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <QfKoep_00Woh4qDG1P@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 19:26:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Gary Keim <gk5g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 561+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pemission denied (in flock...
CC: Kris Olander <kriso@porter.ncd.com>
In-Reply-To: <0fKkeG000000028kc0@porter>
References: <0fKkeG000000028kc0@porter>

\begindata{text,538925992}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from misc: 18-Jan-93 Pemission denied (in flock... 
Kris Olander@porter.ncd. (710*)}


\quotation{One thing I should mention, the Messages process I was running last

}\quotation{night was killed this morning by a reboot so I didn't exit 
Messages

}\quotation{'cleanly'.

}
Sounds like NFS is still holding a lock on one of your AMS-related files. 
 Maybe you can just find, and remove, the lock file(s).


Rebooting the Sun will probably also make the problem go away.  I don't have 
much experince with \italic{NFS lock problems} so maybe you have the knowledge 
that I lack.


Gary Keim

Andrew Consortium

\enddata{text,538925992}

\enddata{text822, 171192}
\begindata{text822, 173141}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po2.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/sfKs5Nm00UdaJ1SE4B>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 23:19:38 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.MfKs55m00UddI2HE5o>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 23:19:20 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q003/QF.QfKs4I600Udb5RX05U>;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 23:18:28 -0500 (EST)
Received: from zeta.saintjoe.edu by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA23943@X> for info-andrew; Mon, 18 Jan 93 23:18:18 EST
Received: from fearless.CompSci (fearless.saintjoe.edu) by zeta.saintjoe.edu (4.0/SMI-4.0)
	id AA03188; Mon, 18 Jan 93 22:16:18 CST
Received: by fearless.CompSci (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA00372; Mon, 18 Jan 93 22:15:50 PST
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.fearless.CompSci.sun4.41
          via MS.5.6.fearless.CompSci.sun4_41;
          Mon, 18 Jan 1993 22:15:45 -0800 (GMT)
Message-Id: <sfKtmFu3LE06A0rRgd@saintjoe.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 22:15:45 -0800 (GMT)
From: Brian Capouch <brianc@saintjoe.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: New Messages Icon?

I'm sure there's an easy explanation here.

I just added a new entry to my .AMS.flames file.  It is the first time
I've changed it since we ported up to the CDROM version of Andrew.

I notice that the icon on unopened mail that has been sorted into the
folder now is different for mail that I haven't looked at yet--it looks
like a piece of paper with the bottom right corner folded up. 

Could anyone out there help?

Thanks.

Brian Capouch
brianc@saintjoe.edu
\enddata{text822, 173141}
\begindata{text822, 175175}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/4fKy2:u00Ui3QkNk8m>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 06:05:49 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.AfKy0hq00UddATKE5Q>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 06:04:22 -0500 (EST)
Received: from neptun.kapsch.co.at by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA08014@X> for info-andrew+; Tue, 19 Jan 93 06:03:34 EST
Return-Path:   @neptun.kapsch.co.at:fodatec@harare.kapsch.co.at
Resent-Date:   Tue, 19 Jan 1993 12:04 MET
Received: from harare.kapsch.co.at [148.198.10.5] by neptun.kapsch.co.at
           with SMTP-VMS via TCP/IP; Tue, 19 Jan 1993 12:04 MET
Received: by harare.kapsch.co.at (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA21248; Tue, 19 Jan 93 12:03:14 +0100
Received: from Messages.7.15.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.harare.kapsch.co.at.sun4.41
          via MS.5.6.harare.kapsch.co.at.sun4_41;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 12:03:12 +0100 (MET)
Resent-Message-Id: <8fKxzkqIlUc59GuEYY@harare.kapsch.co.at>
Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 12:03:12 +0100 (MET)
Resent-From: Fodatec Project <fodatec@harare.kapsch.co.at>
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Resent-To: info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu
Return-Path: <fodatec>
Return-Path: <fodatec@harare.kapsch.co.at>
Message-Id: <cfKkTxGIlUc51ColV4@harare.kapsch.co.at>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 20:41:49 +0100 (MET)
From: Fodatec Project <fodatec@harare.kapsch.co.at>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 5118+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Robert Andrew Ryan <rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
        Todd Inglett <tinglett+@rchland.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: (was: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?)
In-Reply-To: <EfKhRaO00Woi1CJ1I0@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <16470@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
	<sfKNEhm00WoiR0akp6@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<gfKSCUO00WB_QAc2ph@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<IfKSoSm00WoiQS815g@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<MfKUdIy00aw68EjkUl@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<kfKbaESIlUc50j_1Y_@harare.kapsch.co.at>
	<EfKhRaO00Woi1CJ1I0@andrew.cmu.edu>

\begindata{text,1635064}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from info-andrew: 18-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: 
How.. Robert Andrew Ryan@andre (2413+0)}


\quotation{\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 18-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: 
Solution: How.. Fodatec Project@harare.k (1850+0)}

}
\quotation{\quotation{A very important missing feature is the inheritance of 
data. Although data can be addressed from subclasses, you have to know were 
they first occur, so you are able to address them with eg. 
self->header.parentclass.xy . In object oriented languages all features of a 
parentclass should be iherited!

}}
\quotation{True, but an important constraint during the design of class was to 
stay as close to C as possible.  Another constraint was simplicity of the 
class preprocessor itself, which prevented the inclusion of a complete type 
parser such as would be needed to completely automate all access to members. 
 The usual technique I use when I need to access the data of a super class is:

}
\quotation{struct superclass *sc=(struct superclass *)self;

}
\quotation{Not ideal perhaps, but much more readable to me than 
self->header.parentclass.

}
The bad fact on these two solutions is not to use some (more or less 
complicated) C-expressions but the fact exactly to know where to inherit the 
data from. In any case I have to know where the data was first introduced into 
the inheritance tree. Not so with methods. We can safely use 
thisclass_somemethod, without careing about the actual location of the code in 
the iheritance tree - we don't have to write somesuperclass_somemethod. 
(actually nameing it self_somemethod would be pretty, so to loose the coupling 
with the module name. So we can easily change the modulename or take over some 
part of code change from  somewhere else with less efford. This could be done 
easily by the precompiler, like it is done for super).


The task of accessing data from above the inheritance tree is of course not 
trivial, but I think that the class preprocessor has to do it anyway. Methods 
have returnvalues. Why does the class preprocessor only check those, but not 
the type of data.


By the way: Does somebody already have or is developing some kind of class 
browser?


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from info-andrew: 18-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: 
How.. Robert Andrew Ryan@andre (2413+0)}


\quotation{\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 18-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: 
Solution: How.. Fodatec Project@harare.k (1850+0)}

}
\quotation{\quotation{Was it realy useful to devide objects in views and data 
parts, which in my opinion is no good OOP design style.

}}
\quotation{I believe the view/data separation was a very good decision.  Where 
I think it fell down was in not allowing for view data to be saved.

}
The last sentence nearly expresses my personal feeling, that is:

data and view cannot be devided so strictly. It is even so that some view data 
is dependant to the type of data object behind. Just figure some view with an 
lpair and we want to remember the position of the seperationline. The only 
thing we can do is to have some data in the data object. But - since then this 
view only works with data objects having this data describing the position of 
the seperationline. 


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from info-andrew: 18-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: 
How.. Robert Andrew Ryan@andre (2413+0)}


\quotation{  With more traditional toolkits you are often forced to use 
potentially circular callbacks to keep two different kinds of visual elements 
in sync.  (Ie A tells B to update, B has to somehow know that when it is told 
to update by A it shouldn't tell A to update..)  If the elements are views on 
the same dataobject the problem is solved trivially.

}
 I am not an expert concerning ATK in this case, but as far as I know the 
window updates are managed in ATK by means of observer lists.

So if we have a 'combined' data-view object, I think it must be possible to 
implement this mechanism here as well.


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from info-andrew: 18-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: 
How.. Robert Andrew Ryan@andre (2413+0)}


\quotation{Also, it's not clear to me how to support multiple window systems 
in one set of compiled binaries without the view/data separation. 

}
Here I think of data which is shared among all instances of a class and data 
which is private for each instance ( as far as I remember this concept is 
implemented in Smalltalk ). With this mechanism we could generate  two or more 
instances ( windows ) of a combined data-view object sharing the same data. 
You could say now: But this is only possible with the same views.

You are right, but in general views must fit. We can't easily display text 
with a tree-view. So what against codeing both representations in one class, 
so we are shure this representation (view) will work with this data and decide 
at runtime which representation to use. 


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from info-andrew: 18-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: 
How.. Robert Andrew Ryan@andre (2413+0)}


\quotation{ Another example where view/data separation wins is if your goal is 
to produce as small an executable as possible for some data manipulation task, 
with no display required, with the degree of separation ATK maintains there is 
no need for the executable to be linked with the X libraries, or even the view 
code.

}
If this is realy the task you could generate some child class and just 
overwrite the display method to some empty function.


-Chris\
\enddata{text,1635064}


\enddata{text822, 175175}
\begindata{text822, 183006}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po2.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/4fKyA9i00UdaM2AU97>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 06:16:25 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.YfKy:LG00UddQTck4Z>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 06:14:32 -0500 (EST)
ReSent-Message-ID: <Added.kfKy_F_00Udd0TcU9h@andrew.cmu.edu>
Received: from neptun.kapsch.co.at by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA08088@X> for rr2b+; Tue, 19 Jan 93 06:12:38 EST
Return-Path:   @neptun.kapsch.co.at:fodatec@harare.kapsch.co.at
Resent-Date:   Tue, 19 Jan 1993 12:13 MET
Received: from harare.kapsch.co.at [148.198.10.5] by neptun.kapsch.co.at
           with SMTP-VMS via TCP/IP; Tue, 19 Jan 1993 12:13 MET
Received: by harare.kapsch.co.at (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA21598; Tue, 19 Jan 93 12:12:22 +0100
Received: from Messages.7.15.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.harare.kapsch.co.at.sun4.41
          via MS.5.6.harare.kapsch.co.at.sun4_41;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 12:12:21 +0100 (MET)
Message-Id: <YfKy8JuIlUc59GuF49@harare.kapsch.co.at>
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 12:12:21 +0100 (MET)
From: Fodatec Project <fodatec@harare.kapsch.co.at>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 643+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
        Robert Andrew Ryan <rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
        Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
Subject: Re: (was: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?)
In-Reply-To: <4fKnqfcB0KGWM3=gon@holmes.parc.xerox.com>
References: <16470@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
	<sfKNEhm00WoiR0akp6@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<gfKSCUO00WB_QAc2ph@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<IfKSoSm00WoiQS815g@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<MfKUdIy00aw68EjkUl@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<kfKbaESIlUc50j_1Y_@harare.kapsch.co.at>
	<EfKhRaO00Woi1CJ1I0@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<4fKnqfcB0KGWM3=gon@holmes.parc.xerox.com>

\begindata{text,1444800}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from info-andrew: 18-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: 
How.. Bill Janssen@parc.xerox. (556+0)}


\quotation{\quotation{I believe the view/data separation was a very good 
decision.  Where I think it fell down was in not allowing for view data to be 
saved.

}}
\quotation{Multiple inheritance would be a nice solution here.  Make a view 
object which was also a dataobject, and could have yet another type of view 
object looking at it.

}
This would actually mean to combine data and view by means of inheritance and 
lead to a "mixed" data-view object. I can't avoid the feeling, we want to 
devide things within ATK that naturally belong together.


Christian.Sodomka@kapsch.co.at

\enddata{text,1444800}

\enddata{text822, 183006}
\begindata{text822, 185933}
X-Andrew-Authenticated-As: 469;andrew.cmu.edu;Craig F. Everhart
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 1312;transarc.com;Craig Everhart
Received: from sybil.transarc.com via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl) (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl@andrew.cmu.edu)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/sfL42or0BwxIBUSk5r>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 12:56:05 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from sybil.transarc.com via qmail
          ID </afs/transarc.com/usr/cfe/.Outgoing/QF.YfL3zdz0BwxI1jalcx>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 12:52:58 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.7.14.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.sybil.transarc.com.sun4.40
          via MS.5.6.sybil.transarc.com.sun4_40;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 12:52:38 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <ofL3zan0BwxIRjalR4@transarc.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 12:52:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Craig_Everhart@transarc.com
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 494+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    Brian Capouch <brianc@saintjoe.EDU>
Subject: Re: New Messages Icon?
In-Reply-To: <sfKtmFu3LE06A0rRgd@saintjoe.edu>
References: <sfKtmFu3LE06A0rRgd@saintjoe.edu>

\begindata{text,3501696}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 18-Jan-93 New 
Messages Icon? Brian Capouch@saintjoe.E (462*)}


\quotation{I notice that the icon on unopened mail that has been sorted into 
the

}\quotation{folder now is different for mail that I haven't looked at yet--it 
looks

}\quotation{like a piece of paper with the bottom right corner folded up. 

}
Is this a problem?


I bet that Messages uses a different decoration for the folder name also. 
 Instead of ``Mail'', it will say something like ``Private bboard'' or 
whatever.


		Craig

\enddata{text,3501696}

\enddata{text822, 185933}
\begindata{text822, 187929}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 1312;transarc.com;Craig Everhart
Received: from transarc.com via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/wfL4GjL0Bi81ALpU4U>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 13:13:03 -0500 (EST)
Received: from transarc.com via qmail
          ID </afs/transarc.com/service/mailqs/q1/QF.IfL4FIf0Bi81QLlk4k>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 13:11:32 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from sybil.transarc.com via qmail
          ID </afs/transarc.com/usr/cfe/.Outgoing/QF.kfL4EK30BwxI9jamE7>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 13:10:30 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.7.14.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.sybil.transarc.com.sun4.40
          via MS.5.6.sybil.transarc.com.sun4_40;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 13:10:23 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <kfL4EDX0BwxINjam4Y@transarc.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 13:10:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Craig_Everhart@transarc.com
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 1616+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    Brian Capouch <brianc@saintjoe.EDU>
Subject: Re: New Messages Icon?
In-Reply-To: <sfKtmFu3LE06A0rRgd@saintjoe.edu>
References: <sfKtmFu3LE06A0rRgd@saintjoe.edu>

\begindata{text,3501696}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 18-Jan-93 New 
Messages Icon? Brian Capouch@saintjoe.E (462*)}


\quotation{I just added a new entry to my .AMS.flames file.  It is the first 
time

}\quotation{I've changed it since we ported up to the CDROM version of Andrew.

}
\quotation{I notice that the icon on unopened mail that has been sorted into 
the

}\quotation{folder now is different for mail that I haven't looked at yet--it 
looks

}\quotation{like a piece of paper with the bottom right corner folded up. 

}
Just a followup.


There's this MS_GetDirInfo function that returns a code from the set (from 
ams.h):

#define AMS_DIRPROT_READ 1

#define AMS_DIRPROT_MODIFY 2

#define AMS_DIRPROT_MBOX 3

#define AMS_DIRPROT_AWFUL 4

#define AMS_DIRPROT_FULLMAIL 5

#define AMS_DIRPROT_LOCALBB 6

#define AMS_DIRPROT_EXTBB 7

#define AMS_DIRPROT_OFFBB 8


If the folder is NOT writable, it will return one of LOCALBB (``Local BB''), 
EXTBB (``External BB''), OFFBB (``Official BB''?), or READ (``Private BB''?). 
 This distinction is based on whether the pathname to the folder matches any 
of the obvious default mspath elements.


If the folder is writable, it checks whether it can read the associated 
...../Mailbox directory.  If it cannot (for ENOENT or EACCES reasons) it 
returns AMS_DIRPROT_MODIFY (``Editable BB'').  If it can read the Mailbox 
directory and this folder name has as a prefix $home/.MESSAGES/, then it 
returns FULLMAIL (``Mail''), else MBOX (``BB you adminster'').


And, yes, it appears that it's only for FULLMAIL (``Mail'') folders that you 
get the unopened letter icon.  For folders other than under $home/.MESSAGES/, 
you'll get the bulletin-board message icon.


		Craig

\enddata{text,3501696}

\enddata{text822, 187929}
\begindata{text822, 191100}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/4fL62OC00UdZQU=U4u>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 15:12:11 -0500 (EST)
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.YfL61WC00UdZEU6k47>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 15:11:20 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q003/QF.wfL5zje00UddEOZU4Z>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 15:09:20 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Athena.MIT.EDU (ATHENA-AS-WELL.MIT.EDU) by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA06801@X> for info-andrew+; Tue, 19 Jan 93 15:09:13 EST
Received: from OGLALA.MIT.EDU by Athena.MIT.EDU with SMTP
	id AA12681; Tue, 19 Jan 93 15:09:08 EST
Received: by oglala (5.57/4.7) id AA03674; Tue, 19 Jan 93 15:09:07 -0500
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.oglala.pmax.ul4
          via MS.5.6.oglala.pmax_ul4;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 15:09:06 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <cfL5zWcGf0470BOsMO@athena.mit.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 15:09:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Cattey <wdc@Athena.MIT.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
To: info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: ATK and OOP and C++

Over the years, there has been much discussion of Andrew's Object
system, and its relationship to other object systems.

Please understand some interesting historical facts that REMAIN TRUE TODAY:

1. The Andrew Class system contains the absolute minimum new number of
things for a C programmer to learn to do object oriented programming.

2. The C++ standard as it currently exists CANNOT properly implement
global initializers such that present ATK code would work in a
dynamically linked environment.

----

My experience is that people ask for Andrew to be in C++ because they
don't know what object oriented programming really is, they don't
understand what C++'s real values and limits are.

It is an unfortunate reality that the crock known as C++ is gaining
acceptance as an Object Oriented programming environment to the
exclusion of environments like ATK that are actually easier to learn and
contain the minimum useful subset, rather than a bunch of politically
correct items from a useless list of features.

I believe that C++ will eventually have the necessary functionality
added to it so that something like ATK will work within it.
At that time ATK may have survived long enough to get ported to the
system the mob seems to want...

-wdc
\enddata{text822, 191100}
\begindata{text822, 193880}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po2.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/YfL7NjG00UdaIkQE5M>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 16:45:19 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.sfL7MFK00UddMaP04L>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 16:43:51 -0500 (EST)
Received: from hertz.njit.edu by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA09821@X> for info-andrew+; Tue, 19 Jan 93 16:43:25 EST
Received: by hertz.njit.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C)
	id AA06274; Tue, 19 Jan 93 16:43:05 -0500
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 16:43:05 -0500
From: vrk0177@hertz.njit.edu (VENUGOPAL R KOVURU)
Message-Id: <9301192143.AA06274@hertz.njit.edu>
To: Craig_Everhart@transarc.com, info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: New Messages Icon?


\enddata{text822, 193880}
\begindata{text822, 194925}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/EfL7e:600UdZAdNU4j>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 17:02:50 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q003/QF.YfL7cYe00UdbB1H05h>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 17:01:11 -0500 (EST)
Received: from vnet.ibm.com by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA16710@X> for info-andrew+; Tue, 19 Jan 93 17:00:52 EST
Received: from RCHLAND by vnet.ibm.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 9577;
   Tue, 19 Jan 93 16:58:38 EST
Reply-To: "Ronald Skoog" <r_skoog@vnet.ibm.com>
Received: by po1.rchland.ibm.com (5.51/4.7) id <AA04899> for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu; Tue, 19 Jan 93 15:56:50 CST
Received: via switchmail; Tue, 19 Jan 1993 15:56:48 -0600 (CST)
Received: from dover.rchland.ibm.com via qmail
          ID </afs/rchland.ibm.com/service/mailqs/q001/QF.cfL7YCE91JXjM0N0Fx>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 15:56:32 -0600 (CST)
Received: from dover.rchland.ibm.com via qmail
          ID </afs/rchland.ibm.com/usr4/rskoog/.Outgoing/QF.MfL7Y1891JXj8XOkxw>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 15:56:17 -0600 (CST)
Received: from Messages.7.15.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.dover.rchland.ibm.com.rt.aos4
          via MS.5.6.dover.rchland.ibm.com.rt_aos4;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 15:56:16 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <4fL7Y0s91JXj0XOkor@rchland.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 15:56:16 -0600 (CST)
From: Ronald Skoog <rskoog+@rchland.ibm.com>
To: Robert Andrew Ryan <rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
        Todd Inglett <tinglett+@rchland.ibm.com>, info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: (was: Re: Solution: How to resize the window of a running application?)
In-Reply-To: <cfKkTxGIlUc51ColV4@harare.kapsch.co.at>
References: <16470@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
	<sfKNEhm00WoiR0akp6@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<gfKSCUO00WB_QAc2ph@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<IfKSoSm00WoiQS815g@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<MfKUdIy00aw68EjkUl@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<kfKbaESIlUc50j_1Y_@harare.kapsch.co.at>
	<EfKhRaO00Woi1CJ1I0@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<cfKkTxGIlUc51ColV4@harare.kapsch.co.at>

Excerpts from info-andrew: 18-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: How..
Robert Andrew Ryan@andre (2413+0)

> Excerpts from mail: 18-Jan-93 Re: (was: Re: Solution: How.. Fodatec
> Project@harare.k (1850+0)

>> A very important missing feature is the inheritance of data. Although
>> data can be addressed from subclasses, you have to know were they first
>> occur, so you are able to address them with eg.
>> self->header.parentclass.xy . In object oriented languages all features
>> of a parentclass should be iherited!

> True, but an important constraint during the design of class was to stay
> as close to C as possible.  Another constraint was simplicity of the
> class preprocessor itself, which prevented the inclusion of a complete
> type parser such as would be needed to completely automate all access to
> members.  The usual technique I use when I need to access the data of a
> super class is:

Considering the many known flaws with the language, it may be more
desirable to use a language that is more properly disigned (ie: uniform
syntax
and symantics.)  To expect people that are not interested in C
programming to use a language that is as cryptic as C when they are
simply trying
to write tools to make their particular job easier is short-sighted.


with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;


Ronald Skoog
(rskoog@rchvmw2 / rskoog@rchland.vnet.ibm.com)
Performance Design II
Dept. 458  Bldg. 006-2/C205
x33862
\enddata{text822, 194925}
\begindata{text822, 198672}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/YfL7pQC00UdZ0eIE4t>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 17:14:52 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q003/QF.MfL7nny00UddEeaU5=>;
          Tue, 19 Jan 1993 17:13:12 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA10897@X> for info-andrew; Tue, 19 Jan 93 17:13:01 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA20005; Tue, 19 Jan 93 13:58:10 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 19 Jan 93 12:29:47 GMT
From: xrxedds!xrxedds!liebman@uunet.uu.net  (Chris Liebman)
Organization: Xerox EDDS, Herndon, Va.
Subject: Re: color printing
Message-Id: <LIEBMAN.93Jan19072947@zod.xrxedds.UUCP>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu


   Well, I got no immediate responces to my post asking if anyone had
gotten color printing to work so I took a stab at it.  It is now
working here. I am using groff here and my changes depend on using the
groff \X'ps: exec <red> <green> <blue> setrgbcolor ' command. I also 
change the font mapping to troff to use an external table that is read
in during initialization.  If anyone is intrested I supose that I
could clean it up a little and mail it to any intrested parties.

				-- Chris

--
Chris Liebman		Work			Home
Internet:	liebman@xrxedds.com	liebman@zod.xrxedds.com
UUCP:		uunet!xrxedds!liebman	uunet!bopper!zod!liebman
Phone:		1-703-787-2032		1-703-378-2715
\enddata{text822, 198672}
\begindata{text822, 200620}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/ofLFj0:00UdbRjwE5b>;
          Wed, 20 Jan 1993 04:30:40 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q000/QF.IfLFhii00Udd5aYE4=>;
          Wed, 20 Jan 1993 04:29:19 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA26242@X> for info-andrew; Wed, 20 Jan 93 04:29:05 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA16931; Wed, 20 Jan 93 01:12:56 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 19 Jan 93 23:30:59 GMT
From: auspex-gw!guy@uunet.uu.net  (Guy Harris)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara
Subject: Re: Pemission denied (in flock...
Message-Id: <16526@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
References: <0fKkeG000000028kc0@porter>, <QfKoep_00Woh4qDG1P@andrew.cmu.edu>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

>Sounds like NFS is still holding a lock on one of your AMS-related
>files.  Maybe you can just find, and remove, the lock file(s).

The lock in question is a "lockf()" lock, which probably means it's
really an SV-style "fcntl()" lock.  I'm assuing that the lock in
question is the one in "ams/libs/ms/rawdb.c", and that the
AMS_RETURN_ERRCODE either prints the slightly-confusing message (it's
not using "flock()" under HP-UX, so it's not "in flock"), or returns an
error indication that causes that message to be printed.

As such, it may well use the ONC file/record locking service; somebody
else may have a lock on that file - or, at least, the lock manager on
the NFS server may *think* it does.  The lock, however, is probably not
represented by a lock file; it's probably represented by some data
structure either in the address space of the HP-UX kernel, or in the
lock manager process, so it may not be possible to fix things simply by
removing a lock file.

>Rebooting the Sun will probably also make the problem go away.

Perhaps.  If the NFS server has somehow lost a client's request to
release that lock, the reboot will probably fix it (the server will ask
everybody who it thinks has locks outstanding against it to tell it
about them; if the client has, in fact, released the lock, it'll not
tell the server that it has such a lock, so the lock won't come back).

>I don't have much experince with NFS lock problems

There are lots of them; the original poster may be getting hosed by one
of them.  Rebooting the server might be worth a try....
\enddata{text822, 200620}
\begindata{text822, 203534}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po2.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/QfLs3RW00UdaN4805n>;
          Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:06:38 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.8fLs1Ze00Udd4IJU44>;
          Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:04:38 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA05191@X> for info-andrew; Fri, 22 Jan 93 00:04:22 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA16331; Thu, 21 Jan 93 21:00:24 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 19 Jan 93 21:43:37 GMT
From: siemens!aad@princeton.edu  (Anthony Datri)
Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ
Subject: Re: C++ and ATK (was Re: (was: Re: Solution: How to ...))
Message-Id: <1993Jan19.214337.16545@siemens.com>
References: <kfKbaESIlUc50j_1Y_@harare.kapsch.co.at>, <YfKh4P891JY7J8J3FM@rchland.ibm.com>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

>The Andrew Consortium is already looking at the possibility of C++ for
>thetoolkit.

It'd be important that it work with g++.

-- 

======================================================================8--<
\enddata{text822, 203534}
\begindata{text822, 205168}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/YfM1H0u00UdbMGUU4W>;
          Fri, 22 Jan 1993 10:37:37 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q000/QF.cfM1DhK00UddMNTE5R>;
          Fri, 22 Jan 1993 10:34:07 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA06504@X> for info-andrew; Fri, 22 Jan 93 10:33:48 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA17659; Fri, 22 Jan 93 07:20:07 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 21 Jan 93 23:46:38 GMT
From: agate!overload.lbl.gov!s1.gov!dave@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Dave Wright)
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
Subject: first time install question
Message-Id: <1993Jan21.234638.5960@s1.gov>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu



I am installing andrew for the first time and have come across
this problem.

alquery.c: 54: Can't find include file afs/acl.h
alquery.c: 55: Can't find include file afs/prclient.h
alquery.c: 56: Can't find include file afs/prerror.h
alquery.c: 57: Can't find include file afs/venus.h
alquery.c: 59: Can't find include file afs/cellconfig.h
alquery.c: 60: Can't find include file afs/print.h
alquery.c: 61: Can't find include file afs/prs_fs.h

I can not seem to find the afs directory or the header files anywhere.
What am I doing wrong.


Thanks
Dave Wright
dave@s1.gov
\enddata{text822, 205168}
\begindata{text822, 207052}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 5904;andrew.cmu.edu;Robert Andrew Ryan
Received: from atk.itc.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/ofM2m8e00WoiNZO04X>;
          Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:19:04 -0500 (EST)
Received: from atk.itc.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr20/rr2b/.Outgoing/QF.MfM2l:S00WoiJ=pkkv>;
          Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:18:02 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.atk.itc.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.atk.itc.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:18:02 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <IfM2l_200WoiN=pkdJ@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:18:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Andrew Ryan <rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: first time install question
CC: bb+org.itc.atk.ia-trail@andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <1993Jan21.234638.5960@s1.gov>
References: <1993Jan21.234638.5960@s1.gov>

Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 21-Jan-93 first time install
question Dave Wright@ucbvax.Berke (574)


> I can not seem to find the afs directory or the header files anywhere.
> What am I doing wrong.

Check the README, and your site.h and site.mcr files.  AFS_ENV should be
turned off.  (Or if you do have AFS AFSBASEDIR needs to be set
appropriately.)

-Rob Ryan
Andrew Consortium
\enddata{text822, 207052}
\begindata{text822, 208586}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po2.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/IfMB:FW00UdaN45057>;
          Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:07:30 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.IfMB8BK00Udd8Ie04m>;
          Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:05:17 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA05277@X> for info-andrew; Sat, 23 Jan 93 00:05:06 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA22043; Fri, 22 Jan 93 20:55:01 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:10:12 GMT
From: psinntp!ctp!kevin@uunet.uu.net  (Kevin O'Connor)
Organization: CTP, Inc.
Subject: Print ready documentation for Andrew
Message-Id: <1993Jan22.181012.24560@ctp.com>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

I have been looking for a printable copy of the documentation for ez, messages...
in the distribution.  Is there such a thing in the distribution?  Are there
scripts to combine the help files.  I'm finding it difficult to learn with just
the help.  

Also, I can't find much information on configuring the system once it is compiled.
We would be installing it for existing users who have things like MH folders or
mailx folders. Can we munge these into messages folders?

Thanks for any input.

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              |        | Why we are here:
Kevin G. O'Connor             |  /\/\  | To tremble at the terrible beauty
Cambridge Technology Partners | / /_.\ | of the stars, to shed a tear at
kocon@ctp.com                 | \  /./ | the perfection of Beethovan's
+1 617-374-8286               |  \/\/  | symphonies, and to crack a cold
                              |        | one now and then. - D. Letterman
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
\enddata{text822, 208586}
\begindata{text822, 210940}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/wfMUx9:00UdZMO104W>;
          Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:38:49 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.gfMUv4u00UddN=SU4r>;
          Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:36:37 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA19316@X> for info-andrew; Sat, 23 Jan 93 22:36:24 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA26260; Sat, 23 Jan 93 19:26:37 -0800
Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews
	for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu (info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu)
	(contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions)
Date: 23 Jan 93 07:16:28 GMT
From: siemens!aad@princeton.edu  (Anthony A. Datri)
Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ
Subject: Re: first time install question
Message-Id: <C1ApJH.CF6@siemens.com>
References: <1993Jan21.234638.5960@s1.gov>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

>I am installing andrew for the first time and have come across
>this problem.

>alquery.c: 54: Can't find include file afs/acl.h

AFS is an expensive commercial product.  You've probably got AFS_ENV defined
somewhere:  find it and remove the def.
-- 

======================================================================8--<
\enddata{text822, 210940}
\begindata{text822, 212607}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 1447;andrew.cmu.edu;Gary Keim
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/4fMlqim00WohB=Wk5M>;
          Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:52:31 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr13/gk5g/.Outgoing/QF.cfMlp8u00Woh15qctJ>;
          Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:50:49 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:50:48 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <YfMlp8q00Woh15qclO@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:50:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Gary Keim <gk5g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 1256+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Print ready documentation for Andrew
In-Reply-To: <1993Jan22.181012.24560@ctp.com>
References: <1993Jan22.181012.24560@ctp.com>

\begindata{text,539805156}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from misc: 22-Jan-93 Print ready documentation f.. 
Kevin O'Connor@uunet.uu. (1083)}


\quotation{I have been looking for a printable copy of the documentation for 
ez, messages...

}\quotation{in the distribution.  Is there such a thing in the distribution? 
 Are there

}\quotation{scripts to combine the help files.  I'm finding it difficult to 
learn with just

}\quotation{the help.  

}
We've made the help files available in Posctscript format for anon-ftp from 
the host emsworth.andrew.cmu.edu (128.2.45.40) in the directory 
./cdrom/doc/helpdocs.  There are some other documents written about Andrew in 
./cdrom/doc/papers.


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from misc: 22-Jan-93 Print ready documentation f.. 
Kevin O'Connor@uunet.uu. (1083)}


\quotation{Also, I can't find much information on configuring the system once 
it is compiled.

}
You can configure the system after compilation with the AndrewSetup file 
mechanism.  See the help topic 'setup'.


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from misc: 22-Jan-93 Print ready documentation f.. 
Kevin O'Connor@uunet.uu. (1083)}


\quotation{We would be installing it for existing users who have things like 
MH folders or

}\quotation{mailx folders. Can we munge these into messages folders?}


	% cui create newfolder ~/.MESSAGES\\; quit

	% cp Mail/blah/* ~/.MESSAGES/newfolder

	% cui reconstruct newfolder 1 \\; quit


Gary Keim

Andrew Consortium

\enddata{text,539805156}

\enddata{text822, 212607}
\begindata{text822, 215324}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/IfMp8W:00UdZ8RNU5=>;
          Sun, 24 Jan 1993 21:36:18 -0500 (EST)
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.IfMp7Ca00UdZ8RME5U>;
          Sun, 24 Jan 1993 21:34:57 -0500 (EST)
Received: from carbon.chem.utah.edu by andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA07516@X> for info-andrew; Sun, 24 Jan 93 21:34:47 EST
Received: by carbon.chem.utah.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA23184; Sun, 24 Jan 1993 19:34:29 -0700
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 19:34:29 -0700
From: dunkel@carbon.chem.utah.edu
Message-Id: <9301250234.AA23184@carbon.chem.utah.edu>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Cc: dunkel@carbon.chem.utah.edu
Subject: Keep 'help' from opening several windows

I am new to the Andrew software and I am not familiar with relevant
newsgroups or bulletin-boards. So please send me mail and tell me
where an answer is posted if that's the normal way to get an answer.
Thanks.

My first question is: Where can I ask lots of questions concerning
Andrew? Is there commercial support available or could I pay
somebody for helping me? Here are some of my questions - I would
appreciate ANY hint on how to get a (partial) answer:

The history mechanism in 'help' is great. Now all I need to find out
is to keep help from opening lots of help windows
to really make use of the history panel.

- How can I supply a new keyword to a running help process from another
  program (with the current file being listed in the History panel)? 
  There is a command line option for help to request a new window - but how
  can I request to use the old one? I know about typescript. But I 
  want to call the help system from another program. Is there a way
  to call typescript to call help without opening a typescript window?

- Is there a way to disable the "Window menu" in the help system (to
  keep the user from opening lots of additional help windows)?

- Is there a way to put hypertext links in a help document and have
  the new file be displayed in the old help window?
 
- How can I swap right and left headers on even pages when printing
  from the help program (like the option in "Printer Setup" in ez)?

Thanks!
   __                                      _
  |  )      o       |              |      | \            |        |
  | /    _          |_   _    _   _|      |  |           |     _  |
  |/\   /_) |  ^ ^  | |  _)  |   / |      |  | | |  ^ ^  |_)  /_) |
  |  \_/\___|_| | |_| |_(_|__|___\_|      |_/__|_|_| | |_| \_/\___|

  Department of Chemistry            Office: (801) 581-7351         
  2020 Henry Eyring Building b113    Home:   (801) 582-7516         
  University of Utah                 FAX:    (801) 581-8433         
  Salt Lake City, UT 84112           dunkel@chemistry.chem.utah.edu 
\enddata{text822, 215324}
\begindata{text822, 218436}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 1447;andrew.cmu.edu;Gary Keim
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/kfMrGB600WohBOL056>;
          Mon, 25 Jan 1993 00:03:09 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr13/gk5g/.Outgoing/QF.wfMrFXS00WohNK2VFk>;
          Mon, 25 Jan 1993 00:02:27 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Mon, 25 Jan 1993 00:02:27 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <EfMrFXS00Woh5K2V8u@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 00:02:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Gary Keim <gk5g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 2940+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Keep 'help' from opening several windows
In-Reply-To: <9301250234.AA23184@carbon.chem.utah.edu>
References: <9301250234.AA23184@carbon.chem.utah.edu>

\begindata{text,538814372}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from misc: 24-Jan-93 Keep 'help' from opening se.. 
dunkel@carbon.chem.utah. (2041)}


\quotation{My first question is: Where can I ask lots of questions concerning

}\quotation{Andrew?

}
This is the correct forum.  You can also feel secure in sending ATK-format 
documents to this list.


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from misc: 24-Jan-93 Keep 'help' from opening se.. 
dunkel@carbon.chem.utah. (2041)}


\quotation{Is there commercial support available or could I pay

}\quotation{somebody for helping me?

}
The Andrew Consortium supports Andrew and acts as a clearlinghouse for the 
Andrew sources.  Your organization could join at one of three membership 
levels.  For more information contact the director, Fred Hansen 
(wjh+@andrew.cmu.edu).


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from misc: 24-Jan-93 Keep 'help' from opening se.. 
dunkel@carbon.chem.utah. (2041)}


\quotation{- How can I supply a new keyword to a running help process from 
another

}\quotation{  program (with the current file being listed in the History 
panel)? 

}\quotation{  There is a command line option for help to request a new window 
- but how

}\quotation{  can I request to use the old one? I know about typescript. But I 

}\quotation{  want to call the help system from another program. Is there a 
way

}\quotation{  to call typescript to call help without opening a typescript 
window?

}
This feature used to be supported but I believe I removed it for some good 
reason. ;^)  Let me look at the code and try to remember why.


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from misc: 24-Jan-93 Keep 'help' from opening se.. 
dunkel@carbon.chem.utah. (2041)}


\quotation{- Is there a way to disable the "Window menu" in the help system 
(to

}\quotation{  keep the user from opening lots of additional help windows)?

}
You can disable any menubar and item.  Add this to the global.helpinit file 
that should be located in $(ANDREWDIR)/lib:


addmenu "" "Window~12,Show Help on...~14" help

addmenu "" "Window~12,Show Help on Selected Word~26" help


The only problem with this is that users who have .helpinit files, will have 
to use the include directive to get this behavior.


% cat ~/.helpinit

include /usr/andrew/lib/global.helpinit


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from misc: 24-Jan-93 Keep 'help' from opening se.. 
dunkel@carbon.chem.utah. (2041)}


\quotation{- Is there a way to put hypertext links in a help document and have

}\quotation{  the new file be displayed in the old help window?

}
The newest version of help (only available to Consortium members) includes 
hypertext help topics.  Those items that are surrounded with the helptopic 
style (a dotted-box around the topic text), respond to a mouse click by 
loading the associated document into the current window.  I have a personal 
help template that puts the helptopic dotted-box style in red on my color 
display.  Draw the attention.


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from misc: 24-Jan-93 Keep 'help' from opening se.. 
dunkel@carbon.chem.utah. (2041)}


\quotation{- How can I swap right and left headers on even pages when printing

}\quotation{  from the help program (like the option in "Printer Setup" in 
ez)?

}

It should be doable and this is the sort of thing Consortium members get when 
they ask.


Gary Keim

Andrew Consortium

\enddata{text,538814372}

\enddata{text822, 218436}
\begindata{text822, 223054}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 32766
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/8fN3Rly00UddQd3U5o>;
          Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:54:47 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </usr/spool/ViceMsgQueue/QF.IfN2lQe00Udd8XwGZB>;
          Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:07:24 -0500 (EST)
Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA09196@X> for info-andrew; Mon, 25 Jan 93 13:07:17 EST
Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA02411; Mon, 25 Jan 93 10:07:15 -0800
Received: by staves.tay1.dec.com (5.57/ULTRIX-fma-071891-cadf-103091);
	id AA02874; Mon, 25 Jan 93 13:07:14 -0500
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 13:07:14 -0500
From: vincent@tay1.dec.com (Gary Vincent)
Message-Id: <9301251807.AA02874@staves.tay1.dec.com>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Information on Andrew File System
Cc: vincent@microw.enet.dec.com

Hello,

  I am contemplating a paper on the Andrew File system for a graduate-level
Distributed systems course I am taking at Boston University.

 Unfortunately, I haven't had a lot of luck finding papers, etc., that 
explain the technical aspects of the Andrew File System.

 Are there any ftp sites where I could find this kind of material? 
I apologize for sounding pushy, but I would appreciate a speedy response, since
I have to commit to a topic for this paper in the next few days.

 
 Thanks,

 Gary Vincent
\enddata{text822, 223054}
\begindata{text822, 224690}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 38;andrew.cmu.edu;Susan Straub
Received: from muffin.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/EfN79se00Woe4r9U4w>;
          Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:06:33 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from muffin.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/.Outgoing/QF.kfN78OO00Woe8tOq9A>;
          Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:04:58 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.muffin.andrew.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.muffin.andrew.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:04:57 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <YfN78NW00WoeItOq1j@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:04:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Susan Straub <susan+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 1507+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: 1993 Survey

\begindata{text,539678900}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
Dear Info-Andrew Reader, 


Please take a few moments to complete the enclosed survey and return it to 
susan+@andrew.cmu.edu.  We will share the results of the survey with you.  


(It is not our intention to publish individual answers other than to quote 
comments;  however, we are not taking cryptographic precautions and cannot 
guarantee the confidentiality of what you send us.  If we've asked questions 
you'd rather not answer, please feel free to omit them from your reply.)


Thank you for your time.  


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1993 Survey of Andrew User Interface System Users

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Name:

Net address:

Company/division:

Address:

Phone:

Number of machines at site running AUIS:  

		1?   2-10?   10-100?   100-1000?    over 1000?

Number of AUIS users at site:

		1?   2-10?   10-100?   100-1000?    over 1000?

Number of AUIS programmers at site:

		1?   2-10?   10-100?   100-1000?    over 1000?

Does your site have AFS:

What system type(s) do you run AUIS on:  

What are you using AUIS for:

	Mail

	Document production

	Project development

	Other uses

Which AUIS applications/insets do you most commonly use?


Why are you using AUIS?  Did your site consider alternatives?


Other comments:




\italic{Please answer the following if you are doing development work using 
   AUIS.}


What subject areas are you working on?


What applications/insets have you developed?


Are you interested in sharing code and/or information with other AUIS sites? 
  \
\enddata{text,539678900}

\enddata{text822, 224690}
\begindata{text822, 227420}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 602;andrew.cmu.edu;Adam Stoller
Received: from commander.itc.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/8fNIoC200guR4Jg04P>;
          Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:39:10 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from commander.itc.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr21/ghoti/.Outgoing/QF.AfNIl5q00guRMNd15:>;
          Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:35:50 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.commander.itc.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.commander.itc.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:35:49 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <wfNIl5W00guRMNd0xA@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:35:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Adam Stoller <ghoti+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 918+1
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: selection-style change?

\begindata{text,539253564}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
Pardon me if I'm behind the times a bit here - I finally realized that we were 
using old versions of the ATK software on the 6000's - and made a new link so 
I could access the newer versions of the software (Gary's post about the 
help-links got me curious.)


In general, I didn't see many changes (copyright in message-line) - but I 
didn't really expect to either since the "old" versions weren't too old.  


However I noticed one change which, silly though it may be, bothered me.  The 
way a line of text is shown as selected has changed:

\begindata{raster,539345288}
2 0 65536 65536 0 0 625 356
bits 539345288 625 356
/aa/aa/aa/aa-aa	80 |
/55/55/55/55-55	g |
/aa/aa/aa/aa-aa	80 |
/55/55/55/55-55	g |
a8zzzx |
50zzzx |
a8zzzx |
50H80zzzq07Gfc	g |
a880g80i20i04	i06i30zzu0410	84g |
5080g80i23i04	i06i30zzu0410	84g |
a883e080i63i0c	i06i30zzu0410	84g |
5087f0800f3f80	479bdc6e087c61	9b860f03b03780	zzt041084g |
a88ff8801fbf80	479ffe7f08fe61	9fc61f87f03fc0	zzt041084g |
509ffc8030c380	c31ce67398c661	9ce639ce7038c0	zzt07f084g |
a89ffc803fc7g	8318c66190f061	986630cc!30c0	zzt04g84g |
509ffc803fc6g	8318c661907c61	986630cc!30c0	zzt04g84g |
a89ffc80300e01	8318c661b00e61	986630cc!30c0	zzt04g84g |
509ffc8039dc01	0318c673a0c663	9ce639ce7030c0	zzt04g84g |
a88ff8801fbf81	0398c67f20fe7f	9fc61f87f330c0	zzt07G84g |
5087f0800f3f81	0198c66e207c3d	9b860f03b330c0	zzt04g04g |
a883e080l60i18	i30zzv04g04g |
5080g80l60i18	h0e70zzv04g04	g |
a880g80l60i18	h07e0zzv04g04	g |
50H80l60i18h03	c0zzv07Gfcg |
a8zzzx |
50zzzx |
a8zzzx |
/55/55/55/55-55	g |
/aa/aa/aa/aa-aa	80 |
/55/55/55/55-55	g |
/aa/aa/aa/aa-aa	80 |
/55/55/55/55-55	g |
a8zzzx |
50zzzw80 |
a8zzzv0180 |
50zzzv0180 |
a8zzzv0180 |
50zzzv0180 |
a8zzzv0180 |
50zzzv0180 |
a8zzzv0180 |
50zzzv0180 |
a8zzzv0180 |
50i01fdf0h3ei	e04f8003f0g0e	80hf8h3fc0i1f	80i0e70i03e0i
 03fci070ezj01	80 |
a8jcdb0h66i60	598001b0g1980	hd8h2640i0cc0	i0720i0660i02
 64g04g039czj01	80 |
50jc430h62i60	d88001b0g3080	h18h2640i0cc0	i0720i0620i02
 64g0cg039czj01	80 |
a803cf80gd3b3	c0g7078f6cf78	9c7c79b0g301e	db7dd9e0g060f
 1f78g0ccf1f78	g05a3c79eg!07	bbd9e78060f3be	g03ac7b6780zg
 0180 |
50066980gf1b6	60g3ccd9b596c	8f36cdb0g3033	6db6db30g0619
 b2c8g0f99b2cc	g05a66cb2g03cc	db6b2cc06199ac	g02eccdacc0zg
 0180 |
a807e3hd1b7e0	g0efc7b186d83	b6fdb0g30336d	b6dbf0g0607b2
 f0g0c07b2fcg04	e7ef3checdb63	0fc061f8ccg02	eccd8fc0zg0180 |
50!06hc1b6h46	c19b186d11b6c1	b0g30336db6db	h0619bc78g0c19
 bcc0g04e6079e	g046cdb630cg61	80ccg024ccd8c	zh0180 |
a8072c80gc1b7	20g66e59b1d6d	19b6e5b0g18b3	6db6db90g0619
 !98g0c1998e4g	046729a6g066c	df63ae4061c96c	g024ccd8e4ccc
 z0180 |
5003cf8001e3fb	c0g7c78ef8eef	1f3c7bf8g0f1e	ed!fde0g0f0ede
 f0g1e0ede78g0e	23cf3cg07c78d	f1c780f0f376g	071e7bc78cccz
 0180 |
a8t30l30k33j33	zzi0180 |
50t30l30k33j33	zzi0180 |
a8t78l78k1ej1e	zzi0180 |
50zzzv0180 |
a8zzzv0180 |
50zzzv0180 |
a8zzzv0180 |
50zzzv0180 |
a8zzzv0180 |
51ZZZW80 |
abZZZW80 |
50zzzx |
a8zzzw80 |
50zzzv0180 |
a8h03ZZZSfd80 |
50h03ZZZSf980 |
a8h03zzzs0180 |
50h03zzzs0180 |
a8h03zzzs0180 |
50h03zzzs0180 |
a8Hf3zzzs0180 |
50He3zzzs0180 |
a8c0g03zzzs01	80 |
50c0g03i0c08p	02j3cj01i08k02	41zv0180 |
a8c0g03i0408i	02l02j40j01i10	g3e73!8fe24080	zu0180 |
50c0g03i04j02	q40n10g083102	09224080zu0180 |
a8c0g03i743833	0703afc1e199ce	g738e03a1c001	f87866g39c701
 d0e020g082902	0922!40zu0180 |
50c0g03i8c0814	8884620210a484	g2102046220g40	8429g10810231
 1020g08290201	h40zu0180 |
a8c0g03h010408	181048220408c0	84g2102082410	g410230g108104
 120840g082502	01h40zu0180 |
50c0g03h010408	101fc802040880	48g12020807f0	g410220g090104
 03f840g082502	01h40zu0180 |
a8c0g03h010408	!100802040880	48g12020804h41	0220g09010402
 g80g08230201h	40zu0180 |
50c0g03i8c0810	0844!22108030	g0c02042210g40	8420g06010211
 08803008230201	h40zu0180 |
a8c1f803i76!3e	0783!c1e1f010	g0c0f83c1e001	f0787cg0607c1
 e0f1g303e710f	87c0g80zu0180 |
50c1f043r20u01	n80zu0180 |
a8c180c3r20zi	01zv0180 |
50cf87c3rf0zzz	0180 |
a8df87c307ZZZR	e180 |
50c1g0307ZZZR	e180 |
a8c0g0307GdfJ	fdfeZWdf6fOcf	Ue180 |
50c0g0307GdfI	c639fcOfe2c0f	018088Gf018G17	Gc5c2Tbf6f8b18
 c0Hfe2fHcfdfL	7fMe180 |
a8c0g0307Kef75	faOfdcef7bdde	ddGfbdefee7G99	98Tbf6f73bdef
 7fGfdcfH9fdfL	7fMe180 |
50c0g0301271f	83e2Gf6fdfeG3f	Mfbeef7bddedb	Gfbdd7df7G399c
 T7f6f7bbdef79	Gfbee1c8fbf03	Gf8b3!3e1c0fc7	Le180 |
a8c0g030497df	7bdcGf6fdfeG3f	Mfbfef7b7dbd7	Gfb!7dH3f8fT7f
 G7fbdef79Gfbfd	ee77GdfGf73a!dd	ef7fbbLe180 |
50c0g0305b7df	7fbeGf9fdfeOfb	feef87c3c7Gf8	7bbdH3fc1T7fG
 87bdef7fGfbGee	f7GdfGefb9fb!ef	7f7dLe180 |
a8c0g0305b7df	87bfGf6fdfeOfb	861fb7!dbGfb78	3dH3ff8T7fGfb
 bde0Hfbfe0ef7	GdfGeffbf80e0f	7f01Le180 |
50c0g0305b7df	fbbfGf6fdfeOfb	eeefbddeddGfb	f7ddH3f9cT7fG
 7bbdefHfbfdee	f7GdfGef!fbfd	ef!7fLe180 |
a8c0g0305b7df	7bdef3ef7dfeG	3fMfdeef7bdde	ddf9fbf7def79f
 998cT7fG3bbdef	f9Gfdedeef7Gdd	Gf7bbfdedef77	bdLe180 |
50c0g03g93!07	e1f3c63078!3f	Mfe1c7b01808e	79f0e1!0f9fc3
 a1TbfG47!c3f9	Gfe1e1463Ge3G	f8707e1e178fc3	Le180 |
a8c0g0307ZZKbf	ZLe180 |
50c0g0307ZZKdf	ZLe180 |
a8c0g0307ZZZR	e180 |
50c0g0307ZZZR	e180 |
a8c0g03ZZZSe1	80 |
50c0g03ZZZSe1	80 |
a8c0g03I8ff79f	G7fIf7G3ffbMf0	Pfc3efc7fN7fH	efJ3fHdfGf9ed
 f7Re180 |
50c0g03Ieff7df	fef03808c7efG	bffbMefJfeKfb	feG7fI81J7fHef
 JbfHdfGfdedfb	Re180 |
a8c0g03IefGdf	fefbdded!efGbf	NefJfeKfbH7fI	deRbfJfdedfbR
 e180 |
50c0g03Iefc7d1	fdfbddeedfde47	a3e3f138324e1c	8fG81ccf0e49f
 f81f8e4923Ge0	78G7f1f9fGdef1	e6649c7e0f078f	c391Gf8be39!1f
 c7c5edfdRe180 |
a8c0g03Ieff7ce	fdfbddbe!df3b	9dfbee77b92dee	77Gefeb6f725f
 feG77259dGfbfe	G7eef9fGdeeef5	b25f7deef7efbd	ceGf73ddcefdf
 bbb9GfdRe180 |
50c0g03Ieff7df	7bfbdc!3fbf7d	bdfbdf77fb6bf6	f7Gefe7dfb6df
 !fefb6dbeGfbfe	G7df7Hdedf73f6	df7dfeGef7ede	Gefbbedefdf!7d
 GfdRe180 |
a8c0g03Ieff7df	7bf83dbedfbf7d	bdfbdf787b6bf6	f7G!efdfb6df!fe
 036dbeGfbfeG7c	07Hc1c077f6df	7e1f0fef7edeG	efb80defdf017d
 GfdRe180 |
50c0g03Ieff7df	77fbfdeedf7f7d	bdfbdf7fbb6bf6	f7G!efdfb6df!fe
 G6dbeGfbfeG7d	I!dff7f6df7fef	f7ef7edeGefbb	fdefdf7f7dGfd
 Re180 |
a8c0g03Ieff7ce	f7fbfdedef7f3b	bdfbee77bb6dee	f7G"ef76dffeef
 7b6d9dGfbfeG7e	f79fGdfef77f6	df7deef7efbdde	Gf73dedefdfbd
 b9GfdRe180 |
50c0g03I83c191	eff0f808c6G47	18e0f17071261c	63G83c1f0e24f
 G1f8624a3Ge0f8	3c1f0f9fG87f0	e0e24c1c1e0f83	c38c7ff89e18c7
 07c3c4GfbRe180 |
a8c0g03LefIfe	G7fI7fTbfZNfb	Re180 |
50c0g03R7fHfe	UbfZNf7Re180 |
a8c0g03Qfe1fH	e1U0fZZGe180 |
50c0g03f8zzzr	0180 |
a8c0g03f8zzzr	0180 |
50c0g03feg20zzi	2090o30u0180 |
a8c0g03fag20u	03f1fcg1d1e80	zg409074e73fh	01d0h3020l80m
 0180 |
50c0g03faw0109	24g!3380zg4090	8c421080g0230	h6020l80m0180 |
a8c0g03fae0e1	b818s010924g63	3180zg80908442	1086g0411e370
 40fcg074c!c1e3	f038l0180 |
50c0g03fb1020	c418s010820g60	38zh80g804210	86g04021188g20
 g08c5!22108044	l0180 |
a8c0g03fa0820	84t010820g601f	zh80g78421080	g04g1108g20g10
 4604!108082l01	80 |
50c0g03fa0820	84t01f020g6003	80zg80g04421f	h0401f108g20g
 100407f1f080fe	l0180 |
a8c0g03fa0820	84t01g20g6031	80zg80g844210	h04021108g20g
 10!040210!80l	0180 |
50c0g03fb1020	8418s01g203033	3980zg80gc442	1006g02121108
 g22g0844021210	8842l0180 |
a8c0g03fee0f9	ce18s03c0f830	1e2fzh40gb8!3c	06g01e1eb9cg1c
 g078f81e1e870	3cl0180 |
50c0g03f8zzk40	zl0180 |
a8c0g03f8zzk20	zl0180 |
50c0g03f8zzzr	0180 |
a8c0g03f8zzzr	0180 |
50c0g03zzzs01	80 |
a880g03zzzs01	80 |
50h03zzzs0180 |
a8h03zzzs0180 |
50h03zzzs0180 |
a8h03zzzs0180 |
50h03zzzs0180 |
a8h02zzzs0180 |
50zzzv0180 |
a9ZZZW80 |
53ZZZW80 |
afZZZW80 |
50zzzx |
a8zzzx |
50zzzx |
a8zzzx |
50zzzx |
a8zzzx |
50081ce71d01e8	i4030g1078e1c0	3c700f4e0e7380	39f8!e0ic0g20
 d801gc0m0czs |
a8!0842330318	i4010g70cd3260	66d818c60c21g	108c60c0i40g20
 4801g40m04zs |
50140842210208	j102010851220	428810451421g	10845140g10g40
 g5048h4080l04	zs |
a8140842300408	e6cef7c7967810	85932042082045	1421g108c5140
 073c1c40g5048	5f1e59e70b9c38	e5fb9c3czs |
502208421c0401	b3644c4d1b2010	cce1c066182005	b421g10f85b40
 08903240g8848	31346c89062249	13112264zs |
a8220842060401	1224!48912010	7932603c102004	a421g108c4a40
 0f900640g8848	2122448c043e61	f2113e44zs |
503e0842010401	1222884c912010	09122004!2004	a421g10844a40
 08101a40gf848	21324486042031	020a2044zs |
a8410842210609	12228847112010	11122008403044	e421g10844e40
 08102240010448	211c4483042019	020a2044zs |
50410cc2330311	b3610844112010	21122010881884	4433g108c4440
 0c503240010448	21104489043149	8a04316czs |
a8e3!872e01e0	e2c31ce7bb987c	c0e1c660f80f0e	4e1e1839f8e4e6
 078c1dec038efc	739eee6e0e1e70	f7041e3ac0zr |
50l!02g0840j02	l08i02n21zzh |
a8l020ag0cc0j	04l10i04n33zzh |
50l070cg07zk1c	zzh |
a8zzzx |
50zzzx |
/aa/aa/aa/aa-aa	80 |
/55/55/55/55-55	g |
/aa/aa/aa/aa-aa	80 |
/55/55/55/55-55	g |
/aa/aa/aa/aa-aa	80 |
/aa/aa/aa/aa-aa	80 |
/55/55/55/55-55	g |
/aa/aa/aa/aa-aa	80 |
/55/55/55/55-55	g |
a8zzzw80 |
50zzzv01g |
a8zzzw80 |
50H80zzzq1fGf1	g |
a880g80i20i04	i06i30zzu1042	1080 |
5080g80i23i04	i06i30zzu1042	11g |
a883e080i63i0c	i06i30zzu1042	1080 |
5087f0800f3f80	479bdc6e087c61	9b860f03b03780	zzt104211g |
a88ff8801fbf80	479ffe7f08fe61	9fc61f87f03fc0	zzt10421080 |
509ffc8030c380	c31ce67398c661	9ce639ce7038c0	zzt1fc211g |
a89ffc803fc7g	8318c66190f061	986630cc!30c0	zzt10021080 |
509ffc803fc6g	8318c661907c61	986630cc!30c0	zzt100211g |
a89ffc80300e01	8318c661b00e61	986630cc!30c0	zzt10021080 |
509ffc8039dc01	0318c673a0c663	9ce639ce7030c0	zzt100211g |
a88ff8801fbf81	0398c67f20fe7f	9fc61f87f330c0	zzt1ffe1080 |
5087f0800f3f81	0198c66e207c3d	9b860f03b330c0	zzt10g11g |
a883e080l60i18	i30zzv10g1080 |
5080g80l60i18	h0e70zzv10g11	g |
a880g80l60i18	h07e0zzv10g10	80 |
50H80l60i18h03	c0zzv1fGf1g |
a8zzzw80 |
50zzzv01g |
a8zzzw80 |
/55/55/55/55-55	g |
/aa/aa/aa/aa-aa	80 |
/55/55/55/55-55	g |
/aa/aa/aa/aa-aa	80 |
/55/55/55/55-55	g |
a8zzzw80 |
50zzzv03g |
a8zzzv0680 |
50zzzv07g |
a8zzzv0680 |
50zzzv07g |
a8zzzv0680 |
50zzzv07g |
a8zzzv0680 |
50zzzv07g |
a8zzzv0680 |
50i01fdf0h3ei	e04f8003f0g0e	80hf8h3fc0i1f	80i0e70i01d007
 f8i0e1czm07g |
a8jcdb0h66i60	598001b0g1980	hd8h2640i0cc0	i0720i033004c8
 g08g0738zm0680 |
50jc430h62i60	d88001b0g3080	h18h2640i0cc0	i0720i061004c8
 g18g0738zm07g |
a803cf80gd3b3	c0g7078f6cf78	9c7c79b0g301e	db7dd9e0g060f
 1f78g0ccf1f78	g05a3c79eg06h	c1e77cg0758f6	cfzk0680 |
50066980gf1b6	60g3ccd9b596c	8f36cdb0g3033	6db6db30g0619
 b2c8g0f99b2cc	g05a66cb2g06h	c33358g05d99b	5980zj07g |
a807e3hd1b7e0	g0efc7b186d83	b6fdb0g30336d	b6dbf0g0607b2
 f0g0c07b2fcg04	e7ef3cg0603e0	c3f198g05d99b	1f80zj0680 |
50!06hc1b6h46	c19b186d11b6c1	b0g30336db6db	h0619bc78g0c19
 bcc0g04e6079e	g06hc30198g04	999b18zk07g |
a8072c80gc1b7	20g66e59b1d6d	19b6e5b0g18b3	6db6db90g0619
 !98g0c1998e4g	046729a6g0310	gc392d8g04999b	1c9998zi0680 |
5003cf8001e3fb	c0g7c78ef8eef	1f3c7bf8g0f1e	ed!fde0g0f0ede
 f0g1e0ede78g0e	23cf3cg01e001	e1e6ecg0e3cf7	8f1998zi07g |
a8t30l30k33j33	zzi0680 |
50t30l30k33j33	zzi07g |
a8t78l78k1ej1e	zzi0680 |
50zzzv07g |
a8zzzv0680 |
50zzzv07g |
a8zzzv0680 |
50zzzv07g |
a8zzzv0680 |
51ZZZWg |
abZZZVfe80 |
50zzzv01g |
a8zzzv0280 |
50zzzv07g |
a8h03ZZZSf680 |
50h03ZZZSe7g |
a8h03zzzs0680 |
50h03zzzs07g |
a8h03zzzs0680 |
50h03zzzs07g |
a8Hf3zzzs0680 |
50He3ZZZS87g |
a8c0g03ZZZS86	80 |
50c0g03HdfJfd	feZWdf6fOcfU87	g |
a8c0g03HdfIc6	39fcOfe2c0f01	8088Gf018G17G	c5c2Tbf6f8b18
 c0Hfe2fHcfdfL	7fM8680 |
50c0g03Lef75fa	Ofdcef7bddedd	Gfbdefee7G9998	Tbf6f73bdef7f
 GfdcfH9fdfL7f	M87g |
a8c0g03f9271f	83e2Gf6fdfeG3f	Mfbeef7bddedb	Gfbdd7df7G399c
 T7f6f7bbdef79	Gfbee1c8fbf03	Gf8b3!3e1c0fc7	L8680 |
50c0g03fc97df	7bdcGf6fdfeG3f	Mfbfef7b7dbd7	Gfb!7dH3f8fT7f
 G7fbdef79Gfbfd	ee77GdfGf73a!dd	ef7fbbL87g |
a8c0g03fdb7df	7fbeGf9fdfeOfb	feef87c3c7Gf8	7bbdH3fc1T7fG
 87bdef7fGfbGee	f7GdfGefb9fb!ef	7f7dL8680 |
50c0g03fdb7df	87bfGf6fdfeOfb	861fb7!dbGfb78	3dH3ff8T7fGfb
 bde0Hfbfe0ef7	GdfGeffbf80e0f	7f01L87g |
a8c0g03fdb7df	fbbfGf6fdfeOfb	eeefbddeddGfb	f7ddH3f9cT7fG
 7bbdefHfbfdee	f7GdfGef!fbfd	ef!7fL8680 |
50c0g03fdb7df	7bdef3ef7dfeG	3fMfdeef7bdde	ddf9fbf7def79f
 998cT7fG3bbdef	f9Gfdedeef7Gdd	Gf7bbfdedef77	bdL87g |
a8c0g03f893!07	e1f3c63078!3f	Mfe1c7b01808e	79f0e1!0f9fc3
 a1TbfG47!c3f9	Gfe1e1463Ge3G	f8707e1e178fc3	L8680 |
50c0g03ZZLbfZL	87g |
a8c0g03ZZLdfZL	8680 |
50c1f803ZZZS87	g |
a8c1f003ZZZS86	80 |
50c18043ZZZS87	g |
a8c180c3ZZZS86	80 |
50cf87c3I8ff7	9fG7fIf7G3ffb	Mf0Pfc3efc7fN	7fHefJ3fHdfGf9
 edf7R87g |
a8df07c3Ieff7	dffef03808c7ef	GbffbMefJfeKfb	feG7fI81J7fHef
 JbfHdfGfdedfb	R8680 |
50c0g03IefGdf	fefbdded!efGbf	NefJfeKfbH7fI	deRbfJfdedfbR
 87g |
a8c0g03Iefc7d1	fdfbddeedfde47	a3e3f138324e1c	8fG81ccf0e49f
 f81f8e4923Ge0	78G7f1f9fGdef1	e6649c7e0f078f	c391Gf8be39!1f
 c7c5edfdR8680 |
50c0g03Ieff7ce	fdfbddbe!df3b	9dfbee77b92dee	77Gefeb6f725f
 feG77259dGfbfe	G7eef9fGdeeef5	b25f7deef7efbd	ceGf73ddcefdf
 bbb9GfdR87g |
a8c0g03Ieff7df	7bfbdc!3fbf7d	bdfbdf77fb6bf6	f7Gefe7dfb6df
 !fefb6dbeGfbfe	G7df7Hdedf73f6	df7dfeGef7ede	Gefbbedefdf!7d
 GfdR8680 |
50c0g03Ieff7df	7bf83dbedfbf7d	bdfbdf787b6bf6	f7G!efdfb6df!fe
 036dbeGfbfeG7c	07Hc1c077f6df	7e1f0fef7edeG	efb80defdf017d
 GfdR87g |
a8c0g03Ieff7df	77fbfdeedf7f7d	bdfbdf7fbb6bf6	f7G!efdfb6df!fe
 G6dbeGfbfeG7d	I!dff7f6df7fef	f7ef7edeGefbb	fdefdf7f7dGfd
 R8680 |
50c0g03Ieff7ce	f7fbfdedef7f3b	bdfbee77bb6dee	f7G"ef76dffeef
 7b6d9dGfbfeG7e	f79fGdfef77f6	df7deef7efbdde	Gf73dedefdfbd
 b9GfdR87g |
a8c0g03I83c191	eff0f808c6G47	18e0f17071261c	63G83c1f0e24f
 G1f8624a3Ge0f8	3c1f0f9fG87f0	e0e24c1c1e0f83	c38c7ff89e18c7
 07c3c4GfbR8680 |
50c0g03LefIfe	G7fI7fTbfZNfb	R87g |
a8c0g03R7fHfe	UbfZNf7R8680 |
50c0g03Qfe1fH	e1U0fZZG87g |
a8c0g03zzzs06	80 |
50c0g03zzzs07	g |
a8c0g0306g20zzi	2090o30u0680 |
50c0g0302g20u	03f1fcg1d1e80	zg409074e73fh	01d0h3020l80m
 07g |
a8c0g0302w0109	24g!3380zg4090	8c421080g0230	h6020l80m0680 |
50c0g0302e0e1	b818s010924g63	3180zg80908442	1086g0411e370
 40fcg074c!c1e3	f038l07g |
a8c0g!031020c4	18s010820g6038	zh80g80421086	g04021188g20g
 08c5!22108044	l0680 |
50c0g03020820	84t010820g601f	zh80g78421080	g04g1108g20g10
 4604!108082l07	g |
a8c0g03020820	84t01f020g6003	80zg80g04421f	h0401f108g20g
 100407f1f080fe	l0680 |
50c0g03020820	84t01g20g6031	80zg80g844210	h04021108g20g
 10!040210!80l	07g |
a8c0g!03102084	18s01g20303339	80zg80gc44210	06g02121108g22
 g084402121088	42l0680 |
50c0g0306e0f9	ce18s03c0f830	1e2fzh40gb8!3c	06g01e1eb9cg1c
 g078f81e1e870	3cl07g |
a8c0g03zzl40zl	0680 |
50c0g03zzl20zl	07g |
a8c0g03zzzs06	80 |
50c0g03zzzs07	g |
a8c0g03zzzs06	80 |
50c0g03zzzs07	g |
a8c0g03m80i40	04i02h78p1e08	1cm06i0380h1e	081co0904q0680 |
50c0g03l01h01	gc008i06h80j08	k200804i07e0h	02j80h200804l
 40h0902q07g |
a8c0g03l01h!01	4008i0ah80j08	k20g04i0210h02	j80h20g04l40h
 0902q0680 |
50c0g03h01b63c	6e0203a3c7e040	101d0e8002g03	f19878dbg3f03
 8db6e0gfc3804	0703g02107078	3ag0f1b808738	gfc380407g03e7
 38f9f81c6d8901	q07g |
a8c0g03ida4231	02046421g4010	23118002h80a4	846dg080446d3
 10g2008040883	g0210888446g10	8c408210g2008	04088004221108
 4022368001q06	80 |
50c0g03i920221	04082021g4020	41208002h80c1	0249g!08249208
 g2008041040g02	21!04823fa048	408210g200804	1040040211g40
 41248001q07g |
a8c0g03i923e21	040803e1g4020	4020g02h808102	49g080fe49208
 g2008041fc0g03	c1fc7c82g2048	408120g200804	1fc003c120f040
 7f248001q0680 |
50c0g03i924221	!080421g"4020	g02h80810249g	!08049208g2008
 0410h0221g8482	g2048408120g20	080410h212008	!40248001q07g |
a8c0g03i924221	0804242110!40	21108602h!8084	49g0884249310
 g2008040843g02	10!8446g108840	80c0g20080408	400420c1084421
 248001q0680 |
50c0g03h01db3d	739003c3d0e1f0	801e0f060f8003	e1f078ed800703
 cedae0gf83e1f	0783g0708787a	3bg0f1ce3e040	gf83e1f078007
 c041f0381e76c0	02q07g |
a8c0g03l10k80	t02x80n80k02q	0680 |
50c0g03zm02x80	n80k04q07g |
a8c0g03zm0780	v03c0m03c0w06	80 |
50c0g03zzzs07	g |
a8c0g03zzzs06	80 |
50c0g0306g20zzi	2090o30u07g |
a8c0g0302g20u	01d1c1cefc383e	0fe0ge8f4v4090	74e73fh01d0h30
 20l80m0680 |
50c0g0302w0230	40c442!080420	01999cv40908c	421080g0230h60
 20l80m07g |
a8c0g0302e0e1	b818s0410a0a4	41140804200319	8cv8090844210
 86g0411e37040	fcg074c!c1e3f0	38l0680 |
50c0g!031020c4	18s04ga0a44114	0804800301c0v	80g80421086g04
 021188g20g08c5	!22108044l07g |
a8c0g03020820	84t0401109441	2208078003gf8	v80g78421080g
 04g1108g20g10	4604!108082l06	80 |
50c0g03020820	84t0479f09441	3e08448003g1c	v80g04421fh04
 01f108g20g1004	07f1f080fel07	g |
a8c0g03020820	84t0412088c!41	0844g03018cv80	g844210h040211
 08g20g10!0402	10!80l0680 |
50c0g!03102084	18s0212088c42	410844018199cc	v80gc4421006g
 02121108g22g08	440212108842l	07g |
a8c0g0306e0f9	ce18s01e7bdc4	fcf7bfcf0180f1	78v40gb8!3c06
 g01e1eb9cg1cg	078f81e1e8703c	l0680 |
50c0g03zzl40zl	07g |
a8c0g03zzl20zl	0680 |
50c0g03zzzs07	g |
a8c0g03zzzs06	80 |
5080g03zzzs07	g |
a8h03zzzs0680 |
50h03zzzs07g |
a8h03zzzs0680 |
50h03zzzs07g |
a8h03zzzs0680 |
50h02zzzs07g |
a8zzzv0680 |
51ZZZWg |
abZZZVfe80 |
57ZZZWg |
a8zzzw80 |
50zzzv01g |
a8zzzw80 |
50zzzv01g |
a8zzzw80 |
50zzzv01g |
a8zzzw80 |
50zzzv01g |
a8zzzw80 |
50zzzv01g |
a8zzzw80 |
50zzzv01g |
a8zzzw80 |
50zzzv01g |
a8zzzw80 |
50zzzv01g |
a8zzzw80 |
50zzzv01g |
a8zzzw80 |
50zzzv01g |
a8zzzw80 |
\enddata{raster, 539345288}
\view{rasterview,539345288,0,0,0}
("old" on bottom - "new" on top)


Before you used to get a "clean" rectangular reverse-video box indicating the 
selection region - now you get a rectangle with a weird missing-piece at the 
beginning and an extra-piece at the end.  Clearly this "piece" is supposed to 
be the CRLF (or newline, whatever).


\bigger{Was this intentional?

Is this really preferred?

Is it necessary??}


--fish\
\enddata{text,539253564}

\enddata{text822, 227420}
\begindata{text822, 245657}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po2.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/0fNPv=C00Uda8b905K>;
          Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:44:27 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.UfNPsrS00UddBE=U5I>;
          Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:42:03 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA20513@X> for info-andrew; Tue, 26 Jan 93 17:41:45 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA12441; Tue, 26 Jan 93 14:31:38 -0800
Path: ucbvax!agate!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!portal.austin.ibm.com!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!davidc
From: davidc@austin.ibm.com (David Cox)
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: white pages
Message-Id: <C1GwK1.226y@austin.ibm.com>
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:33:37 GMT
Sender: news@austin.ibm.com (News id)
Organization: IBM Kingston NY
Lines: 17
Originator: davidc@sensdek.kgn.ibm.com
Apparently-To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu


 hi,

 I'm trying to set up WP and AMS on some RS/6000 's and 
can't really get things working. I got everything compiled BUT am
having trouble customizing the servers...

Is there any other doc than what comes with the dist ?
I'm building from 5.1......


 Thanks,
    David
-- 
-- 
David Cox                             these are my own opinions NOT IBM's 
davidc@sensdek.kgn.ibm.com
\enddata{text822, 245657}
\begindata{text822, 247341}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 1447;andrew.cmu.edu;Gary Keim
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/ofNQ2kK00WohBCD09s>;
          Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:52:32 -0500 (EST)
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr13/gk5g/.Outgoing/QF.kfNQ1bO00WohR4fIUS>;
          Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:51:19 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:51:19 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <ofNQ1bK00WohN4fINg@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:51:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Gary Keim <gk5g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 374+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: white pages
CC: davidc@austin.ibm.com (David Cox)
In-Reply-To: <C1GwK1.226y@austin.ibm.com>
References: <C1GwK1.226y@austin.ibm.com>

\begindata{text,539300108}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from misc: 26-Jan-93 white pages David 
Cox@austin.ibm.com (387)}


\quotation{Is there any other doc than what comes with the dist ?

}\quotation{I'm building from 5.1......

}

Did you read andrew/ams/deliver/doc/AMDS.ins?


There is a known bug with compiling the program \typewriter{makeboth} with 
optimization on the RS/6000.  Makeboth is used in the Whitepages generation.


Gary Keim

Andrew Consortium

\enddata{text,539300108}

\enddata{text822, 247341}
\begindata{text822, 249073}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/UfNQYsy00Ui34MIE8Z>;
          Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:28:59 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.YfNQY9S00Udb1Q8057>;
          Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:28:12 -0500 (EST)
Received: from vnet.ibm.com by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA23573@X> for info-andrew+; Tue, 26 Jan 93 18:27:58 EST
Received: from RCHLAND by vnet.ibm.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 1779;
   Tue, 26 Jan 93 18:25:53 EST
Reply-To: "Robert Kemmetmueller" <rskm@rchland.VNET.IBM.COM>
Received: by po1.rchland.ibm.com (5.51/4.7) id <AA04789> for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu; Tue, 26 Jan 93 16:55:15 CST
Received: via switchmail; Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:55:11 -0600 (CST)
Received: from coredump.rchland.ibm.com via qmail
          ID </afs/rchland.ibm.com/service/mailqs/q000/QF.4fNQ4b491JbQ4iUmcL>;
          Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:54:31 -0600 (CST)
Received: from coredump.rchland.ibm.com via qmail
          ID </afs/rchland.ibm.com/usr3/rskm/.Outgoing/QF.UfNQ4Wc91JbQB1l0hs>;
          Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:54:27 -0600 (CST)
Received: from Messages.7.15.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.coredump.rchland.ibm.com.rs.aix32
          via MS.5.6.coredump.rchland.ibm.com.rs_aix32;
          Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:54:26 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <gfNQ4WQ91JbQ51l0Z=@rchland.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:54:26 -0600 (CST)
From: Robert Kemmetmueller <rskm+@rchland.ibm.com>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 798+2
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: messages bugs
Cc: Bboard Service <bboard+advisor.dev.atk@rchland.ibm.com>

\begindata{text,539531904}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\define{center

attr:[Justification Centered Point 0]}
\define{global
}
\define{footnote

attr:[Flags OverBar Int Set]
attr:[FontSize PreviousFontSize Point -2]}
\define{h

attr:[FontFamily rom Int 0]
attr:[FontSize ConstantFontSize Point 6]}
\define{a

attr:[Script PreviousScriptMovement Point -1]
attr:['color' '#F0A000']}
\define{b

attr:[Script PreviousScriptMovement Point -1]
attr:['color' '#E08000']}
\define{c

attr:[Script PreviousScriptMovement Point -1]
attr:['color' '#D06000']}
\define{d

attr:[Script PreviousScriptMovement Point -1]
attr:['color' '#C05000']}
\define{e

attr:[Script PreviousScriptMovement Point -2]
attr:['color' '#B03000']}
\define{f

attr:[Script PreviousScriptMovement Point 6]
attr:['color' '#A02000']}
\define{g

attr:['color' '#CD8500']}
\bold{-- Messages bug -- (key binding)

}
When \bold{messages} is viewing a message with a text inset, and the inset has
input focus, \italic{some} keystrokes (like spacebar) are intercepted by
\bold{messages} and perform their normal action.  However, \italic{other}
keystrokes are taken, and inserted into the inset (even though the message
it's \italic{inside of} is readonly!).


Pressing Esc-~ while the inset has input focus doesn't do what you'd expect
(make the \italic{message} writable), but rather makes the \italic{inset}
readonly like it ought to have been in the first place.


\footnote{\
\begindata{fnote,539687936}
\textdsversion{12}
\define{bold
menu:[Font~1,Bold~10]
attr:[FontFace Bold Int Set]}
\define{italic
menu:[Font~1,Italic~11]
attr:[FontFace Italic Int Set]}
It must be the way \bold{messages} binds its keys.  I have a text/textview
subclass that works admirably as an inset within \bold{ez}, but for some
reason in \bold{messages}, the arrow keys don't work in the inset when the
message is readonly.  Pretty weird.  But never mind that, I'd just like to see
the base \bold{text} object be handled properly (if it's possible) and THEN
figure out what's goofy about \italic{my} inset.\
\enddata{fnote,539687936}
\view{fnotev,539687936,81,0,0}}
\begindata{bp,540819136}
\enddata{bp,540819136}
\view{bpv,540819136,82,0,0}
\bold{-- Messages bug -- (Insert File)

}
(This is probably related to the one above.)  Whenever you do an "Insert File"
into a \bold{text} inset in a message, the file gets inserted \italic{into the
parent document} (message) rather than into the inset.

\center{
\h{\f{R\e{o\d{b\c{er\b{t K\a{emme}tmu}el}l}e}r

}\g{rskm@rchland

3-4968

}}}\enddata{text,539531904}

\enddata{text822, 249073}
\begindata{text822, 253613}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 5904;andrew.cmu.edu;Robert Andrew Ryan
Received: from atk.itc.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/4fNRMdK00WoiJMJE5l>;
          Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:24:09 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from atk.itc.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr20/rr2b/.Outgoing/QF.MfNRLcy00Woi5HAUw=>;
          Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:23:05 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.atk.itc.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.atk.itc.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:23:04 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <IfNRLcG00WoiNHAUpV@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:23:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Andrew Ryan <rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 1071+0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/richtext; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: messages bugs
In-Reply-To: <gfNQ4WQ91JbQ51l0Z=@rchland.ibm.com>
References: <gfNQ4WQ91JbQ51l0Z=@rchland.ibm.com>

<bold><excerpt>Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 26-Jan-93 messages 
bugs Robert Kemmetmueller@rch (798+2)</excerpt></bold><nl>

<nl>

<excerpt>When <bold>messages</bold> is viewing a message with a text inset, 
and the inset has input focus, <italic>some</italic> keystrokes (like spacebar)
 are intercepted by <bold>messages</bold> and perform their normal action.  
However, <italic>other</italic> keystrokes are taken, and inserted into the 
inset (even though the message it's <italic>inside of</italic> is readonly!).<
nl>
</excerpt><nl>

Yes, this is an old old issue.  (Obviously it's never been resolved reasonably.
)   Personally I believe the bindings should be done so that messages will not 
override any bindings the inset has.  Also, we should make the insets readonly,
 except there is no concept of "readonly" coded in dataobject.  (This should 
probably change.)<nl>

<nl>

<bold><excerpt>Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 26-Jan-93 messages 
bugs Robert Kemmetmueller@rch (798+2)</excerpt></bold><nl>

<nl>

<excerpt>(This is probably related to the one above.)  Whenever you do an "
Insert File" into a <bold>text</bold> inset in a message, the file gets 
inserted <italic>into the parent document</italic> (message) rather than into 
the inset.<nl>

</excerpt><nl>

I can't replicate this problem...<nl>

<nl>

-Rob<nl>

\enddata{text822, 253613}
\begindata{text822, 256231}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/wfNc7Wa00UdbE4Sk5S>;
          Wed, 27 Jan 1993 07:36:50 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.4fNc5qW00UddQ3w04L>;
          Wed, 27 Jan 1993 07:35:02 -0500 (EST)
Received: from lune.csc.liv.ac.uk by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA01003@X> for info-andrew+; Wed, 27 Jan 93 07:34:49 EST
Received: from cal.csc.liv.ac.uk by lune.csc.liv.ac.uk with SMTP
	(16.8/LUCS-1.3) id AA03709; Wed, 27 Jan 93 12:34:24 GMT
Received: by cal.csc.liv.ac.uk id AA12829; Wed, 27 Jan 93 12:34:24 GMT
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 12:34:24 GMT
From: R.Rada@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk
Message-Id: <9301271234.AA12829@cal.csc.liv.ac.uk>
To: M.D.Beer@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk, info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu
Cc: chen1@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk, R.Rada@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk,
        perena@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk, wang@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk,
        daves@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk, frans@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk
In-Reply-To: Martin Beer's message of Wed, 27 Jan 1993 11:12:58 +0000 (GMT) <0fNasu0000000ofoI0@indus>
Subject: AMS, FLAMES

How can it not work here if we have a standard system and it is
supposed to run on standard Hewlett-Packard systems?

Roy

   Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 11:12:58 +0000 (GMT)
   From: Martin Beer <M.D.Beer@uk.ac.liverpool.compsci>
   Mime-Version: 1.0
   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
   References: <9301262018.AA10170@cal.csc.liv.ac.uk>

   Excerpts from mail: 26-Jan-93 AMS, FLAMES R.Rada@uk.ac.liverpool.c (635)

   > Given that you feel we could do significantly faster and more
   > significant, thorough experiments with FLAMES, AMS, and so on without
   > any further programming, might we please establish what are the pros
   > and cons of this so that we can write a well-argued letter to the
   > experimental officer staff (Dave Shield) as soon as possible as to why
   > we would like this software of Andrew available.  Among other things,
   > some of our M.Phil. students, such as Perena, could then pursue her
   > M.Phil. work more effectively.  Perhaps the Aide-de-Campe project
   > would be interested in collaboration in this work on email filtering
   > and such as well.
   > Roy

   Dave and myself have looked at flames several times.

   If it is to work on our machines, a significant development effort is
   required, that neither Dave nor myself have time to undertake.  I have
   been in contact with CMU several times, and they have no better idea
   than we have as to what is wrong.

   Aide-de-Camp has a much more sophisticated mailing filter which has been
   developed here.  I am told that their only interest would be to look at
   FLAMES as an example of how someone else approached a similar problem.

   I hopw this helps,

   Martin



   Dr. Martin Beer,
   Department of Computer Science,		Telephone 051-794-3672
   University of Liverpool,		Fax: 051-794-3715
   Chadwick Tower, P.O. Box 147,           EMail mdb@uk.ac.liverpool.compsci
   LIVERPOOL.  L69 3BX. United Kingdom.

\enddata{text822, 256231}
\begindata{text822, 259607}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/AfNg98m00UddIVbE5n>;
          Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:11:37 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q003/QF.YfNg57C00Udb0X8E4f>;
          Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:07:22 -0500 (EST)
Received: from vnet.ibm.com by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA08986@X> for info-andrew+; Wed, 27 Jan 93 12:07:09 EST
Received: from RCHLAND by vnet.ibm.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7129;
   Wed, 27 Jan 93 12:05:00 EST
Reply-To: "Todd Inglett" <tinglett@vnet.ibm.com>
Received: by po1.rchland.ibm.com (5.51/4.7) id <AA01763> for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu; Wed, 27 Jan 93 10:07:59 CST
Received: via switchmail; Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:07:57 -0600 (CST)
Received: from q.rchland.ibm.com via qmail
          ID </afs/rchland.ibm.com/service/mailqs/q000/QF.sfNfB4A91JbdEiWGI1>;
          Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:07:32 -0600 (CST)
Received: from q.rchland.ibm.com via qmail
          ID </afs/rchland.ibm.com/usr3/tinglett/.Outgoing/QF.wfNfB3M91JbdIpQXcM>;
          Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:07:31 -0600 (CST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.q.rchland.ibm.com.rs.aix32
          via MS.5.6.q.rchland.ibm.com.rs_aix32;
          Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:07:30 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <8fNfB2U91JbdQpQXRZ@rchland.ibm.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:07:30 -0600 (CST)
From: Todd Inglett <tinglett+@rchland.ibm.com>
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: messages bugs
In-Reply-To: <IfNRLcG00WoiNHAUpV@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <gfNQ4WQ91JbQ51l0Z=@rchland.ibm.com>
	<IfNRLcG00WoiNHAUpV@andrew.cmu.edu>

Excerpts from ext.misc.info-andrew: 26-Jan-93 Re: messages bugs Robert
Andrew Ryan@andre (1071+0)

>> (This is probably related to the one above.)  Whenever you do an "
>> Insert File" into a text inset in a message, the file gets inserted into
>> the parent document (message) rather than into the inset.

> I can't replicate this problem...

I can reproduce it even with the new ``Members Only'' 5.2.0 release.
Here is a more obvious way to reproduce the bug:

Open a sendmessage window and click in the body.  Insert a ps inset.
Click to put the input focus inside the ps inset.  Now choose Insert
File from the menu and insert any file you like.  The file will not
insert into the ps inset.

-todd inglett
\enddata{text822, 259607}
\begindata{text822, 262256}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/sfNlDyi00UdbNND09I>;
          Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:00:15 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.UfNlD:i00Udb1N6k5r>;
          Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:59:23 -0500 (EST)
Received: from vnet.ibm.com by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA22802@X> for info-andrew+; Wed, 27 Jan 93 17:59:07 EST
Received: from RCHLAND by vnet.ibm.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8382;
   Wed, 27 Jan 93 17:56:58 EST
Reply-To: "Wayne D Richardson" <wdr@vnet.ibm.com>
Received: by po1.rchland.ibm.com (5.51/4.7) id <AA04382> for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu; Wed, 27 Jan 93 16:09:15 CST
Received: via switchmail; Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:09:13 -0600 (CST)
Received: from borg.rchland.ibm.com via qmail
          ID </afs/rchland.ibm.com/service/mailqs/q001/QF.8fNkTk091JbTMiWm0b>;
          Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:08:48 -0600 (CST)
Received: from borg.rchland.ibm.com via qmail
          ID </afs/rchland.ibm.com/usr1/wdr/.Outgoing/QF.ofNkTgg91JbTFVe3ku>;
          Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:08:44 -0600 (CST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.borg.rchland.ibm.com.rs.aix32
          via MS.5.6.borg.rchland.ibm.com.rs_aix32;
          Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:08:44 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <0fNkTgg91JbT1Ve3dG@rchland.ibm.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:08:44 -0600 (CST)
From: Wayne D Richardson <wdr+@rchland.ibm.com>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 538+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: selection-style change?
In-Reply-To: <wfNIl5W00guRMNd0xA@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <wfNIl5W00guRMNd0xA@andrew.cmu.edu>

\begindata{text,538565376}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\define{bigger
menu:[Font~1,Bigger~20]
attr:[FontSize PreviousFontSize Point 2]}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from ext.misc.info-andrew: 26-Jan-93
selection-style change? Adam Stoller@andrew.cmu. (918+1)}


\quotation{Before you used to get a "clean" rectangular reverse-video box
indicating the selection region - now you get a rectangle with a weird
missing-piece at the beginning and an extra-piece at the end.  Clearly this
"piece" is supposed to be the CRLF (or newline, whatever).

}
\bigger{\quotation{Was this intentional?

}\quotation{Is this really preferred?

}}\quotation{\bigger{Is it necessary??}

}
Use this preference to fix it up:


\example{*.HighlightToBorders: true

}
Wayne Richardson

wdr@vnet.ibm.com

\enddata{text,538565376}

\enddata{text822, 262256}
\begindata{text822, 265070}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 1447;andrew.cmu.edu;Gary Keim
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/sfOLNOq00WohNM6U5E>;
          Fri, 29 Jan 1993 13:24:27 -0500 (EST)
If-Type-Unsupported: send
Received: from rascal.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr13/gk5g/.Outgoing/QF.wfOLMtW00Woh54fRgq>;
          Fri, 29 Jan 1993 13:23:54 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs.aix31
          via MS.5.6.rascal.andrew.cmu.edu.rs_aix31;
          Fri, 29 Jan 1993 13:23:53 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <IfOLMtK00Woh14fRZa@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 13:23:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Gary Keim <gk5g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 532+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: graphic bug with Graphon?
In-Reply-To: <wfOJ6ny753w803Mldt@gazelle.att.com>
References: <ofO=a4200WohMrdlJQ@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<wfOJ6ny753w803Mldt@gazelle.att.com>

\begindata{text,539300108}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from misc: 29-Jan-93 Re: graphic bug with Graphon? 
cch@mtgzy.att.com (344)}


\quotation{I have been using Graphon for years, and I have never seen any 
problem

}\quotation{like this.

}\quotation{The only Graphon bugs I have observed have to do with cursors 
being

}\quotation{chopped off.

}

I fogot to mention that this occurs on monochrome Graphons.


The weird part is that the people who are affected went month (years?) without 
seeing the problem until just recently.  Neither the Graphon xserver or the 
ATK binaries have changed in months.


Gary Keim

Andrew Consortium

\enddata{text,539300108}

\enddata{text822, 265070}
\begindata{text822, 267005}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/MfOQHxC00UddJeEE44>;
          Fri, 29 Jan 1993 18:59:57 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q000/QF.wfOQFYi00UddRe4E5X>;
          Fri, 29 Jan 1993 18:57:27 -0500 (EST)
Received: from alw.nih.gov by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA27147@X> for info-andrew+; Fri, 29 Jan 93 18:57:15 EST
Received: by alw.nih.gov (5.61/1.35(alw-2.4))
	id AA13081; Fri, 29 Jan 93 18:57:11 -0500
Received: from Messages.7.14.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.alw.nih.gov.rt.r3
          via MS.5.6.alw.nih.gov.rt_r3;
          Fri, 29 Jan 1993 18:57:10 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <gfOQFKW0ts07Mmu0Yp@alw.nih.gov>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 18:57:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Bob Dew <rdew@alw.nih.gov>
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
        Gary Keim <gk5g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: graphic bug with Graphon?
In-Reply-To: <IfOLMtK00Woh14fRZa@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <ofO=a4200WohMrdlJQ@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<wfOJ6ny753w803Mldt@gazelle.att.com>,
	<IfOLMtK00Woh14fRZa@andrew.cmu.edu>

It may be coincidental, but we first noticed the graphon problem about
when the xgraphic.c patch became available.

I can say for sure, though, that pre-5.0 andrew versions to not exhibit
the text-blanking problem on b&w graphon X-terminals.

-Bob
\enddata{text822, 267005}
\begindata{text822, 268653}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/MfOQNHC00Ui3AQFE5I>;
          Fri, 29 Jan 1993 19:05:48 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q000/QF.AfOQLK200Udd9ecU5B>;
          Fri, 29 Jan 1993 19:03:38 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA27279@X> for info-andrew; Fri, 29 Jan 93 19:03:08 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA13180; Fri, 29 Jan 93 15:51:33 -0800
Path: ucbvax!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mucs!lucs!zhm
From: zhm@csc.liv.ac.uk (Dr. M Zheng)
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Audio, Video support with Andrew?
Message-Id: <C1KBKM.3J3@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk>
Date: 28 Jan 93 11:50:46 GMT
Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater)
Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University
Lines: 5
Nntp-Posting-Host: esk.csc.liv.ac.uk
Apparently-To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

I wonder if anybody intends to develop (or has done) a "real" multimedia (including audio and video) application on Andrew. Current Andrew package doesn't including objects (insets) supporting audio and video. Does Andrew people have a plan to upgrade Andrew to support audio and video? Could someone give me some information about supporting "real" multimedia with Andrew? Any info. including experience, systems and references will be highly appreciated.

Thanks,

Min
\enddata{text822, 268653}
\begindata{text822, 270378}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/cfOgPXe00UdZEEO09v>;
          Sat, 30 Jan 1993 13:20:20 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q001/QF.YfOgO5i00UdbADD056>;
          Sat, 30 Jan 1993 13:18:46 -0500 (EST)
Received: from vnet.ibm.com by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA03895@X> for info-andrew; Sat, 30 Jan 93 13:18:39 EST
Received: from RCHLAND by vnet.ibm.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0306;
   Sat, 30 Jan 93 13:16:35 EST
Reply-To: "Todd Inglett" <tinglett@vnet.ibm.com>
Received: by po1.rchland.ibm.com (5.51/4.7) id <AA01139> for info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu; Sat, 30 Jan 93 12:17:58 CST
Received: via switchmail; Sat, 30 Jan 1993 12:17:55 -0600 (CST)
Received: from q.rchland.ibm.com via qmail
          ID </afs/rchland.ibm.com/service/mailqs/q000/QF.IfOgN1091JbdEiWGg2>;
          Sat, 30 Jan 1993 12:17:37 -0600 (CST)
Received: from q.rchland.ibm.com via qmail
          ID </afs/rchland.ibm.com/usr3/tinglett/.Outgoing/QF.kfOgN0A91JbdBZJVck>;
          Sat, 30 Jan 1993 12:17:36 -0600 (CST)
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.q.rchland.ibm.com.rs.aix32
          via MS.5.6.q.rchland.ibm.com.rs_aix32;
          Sat, 30 Jan 1993 12:17:33 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <MfOgMxA91JbdNZJVQO@rchland.ibm.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1993 12:17:33 -0600 (CST)
From: Todd Inglett <tinglett+@rchland.ibm.com>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 1027+0
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
If-Type-Unsupported: send
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: Audio, Video support with Andrew?
In-Reply-To: <C1KBKM.3J3@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk>
References: <C1KBKM.3J3@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk>

\begindata{text,539412736}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from ext.misc.info-andrew: 28-Jan-93 Audio, Video
support with A.. Dr. M Zheng@csc.liv.ac.u (471)}


\quotation{I wonder if anybody intends to develop (or has done) a "real"
multimedia (including audio and video) application on Andrew.

}
Hmm...I wouldn't really say that "real" multimedia must necessarily mean audio
and video, although that seems to be the common meaning of it in the industry
today.  Too bad really because they are just the tip of the iceberg.


Anyway, we have a pretty good audio inset that we'll be donating to the Andrew
Consortium shortly.  It supports the IBM Audio Capture & Playback Adapter,
which is pretty much the same thing as you'll find in a NeXT or Sun.  I'm sure
someone can port it to those platforms.


The architecture is there in Andrew to easily add these insets (and has been
there for years).  All you need is the hardware to do the audio and video and
a little patience to get the hardware to do what you want.  Then you can edit
them with ez, mail them with messages, etc.


-todd inglett

\enddata{text,539412736}

\enddata{text822, 270378}
\begindata{text822, 273515}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/cfOi9d600UdbMJl04t>;
          Sat, 30 Jan 1993 15:17:45 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.sfOi6oW00UddES004k>;
          Sat, 30 Jan 1993 15:14:44 -0500 (EST)
Received: from silver.sdsmt.edu by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA07675@X> for info-andrew; Sat, 30 Jan 93 15:14:37 EST
Received: by silver.sdsmt.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA21969; Sat, 30 Jan 1993 13:14:34 -0700
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1993 13:14:34 -0700
From: bmorgan@silver.sdsmt.edu (Bradford A. Morgan)
Message-Id: <9301302014.AA21969@silver.sdsmt.edu>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu


South Dakota School of Mines and Technology

POSITION VACANCY

VICE PRESIDENT 

An academic vice president is sought for this public science and engineering 
university dedicated to excellence.  The 2,500 undergraduate and graduate 
students are involved in 32 degree programs, through the Ph.D. in some 
disciplines.  Students have combined average ACT scores of 25.  

 Located in the Black Hills near Mount Rushmore and the Badlands, and not 
far from the Big Horn Mountain Range of Wyoming, greater Rapid City is a 
community of 85,000 with a favorable quality-of-life/cost-of-living ratio in
a forested setting with ponderosa pines, Black Hills spruce, hiking trail 
networks, dinosaur relics, Sioux tradition, and national caves.

APPLICATIONS and NOMINATIONS

The selection of the Vice President of the South Dakota School of Mines 
and Technology should serve to impact the institution to better effect a 
positive environment by promoting professional development and global 
telecommunications, including the following criteria:

1.  An awareness of innovative learning methodologies existing in the 
engineering, science, and humanities curricula elsewhere and their 
transferability to curricula here.
2.  An awareness of computer communications such as the Internet which 
has particular impact on overcoming geographical isolation 
experienced by students and faculty at this institution.
3.  The willingness to support faculty as they innovatively explore new
teaching/learning strategies.
4.  An awareness of faculty development programs which seek to 
strengthen classroom teaching and research abilities.
5.  A recognition of the necessity for developing on-going and continual
faculty-student-administrative dialogue on issues of all kinds as they both 
affect these groups and as they pertain to a stimulating environment 
intellectually for these groups.
6.  An awareness of the complexity of issues and the willingness to take 
risks which push our institution into the national area as a premier 
undergraduate institution.
7.  A desire to cultivate and affirm diverse attitudes, personalities, ideas,
and temperaments to benefit students and faculty alike, allowing us to grow 
in social consciousness and awareness complementary to our solid scientific 
and technical backgrounds.

Candidates for the position must have an earned doctorate in a discipline
of engineering or science and possess the administrative experience
necessary.  Nominations will be accepted.

Applicants should submit a cover letter explaining interest in the
position along with names, addresses, and phone numbers of at least
five references, and a statement of goals, to:

	Dr. Douglas K. Lange and Dr. Harold D. Orville
	Co-Chairs, VP Search and Screen Committee
	South Dakota School of Mines and Technology
	501 E. St. Joseph Street
	Rapid City, SD 57701-3995

Review of the applications begins February 15, 1993, and will continue
until a suitable candidate is hired.   An Equal Opportunity Employer.
\enddata{text822, 273515}
\begindata{text822, 277529}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/cfOm:uK00Udd0jxU4K>;
          Sat, 30 Jan 1993 19:52:10 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q000/QF.4fOm9AW00UddAjrk4y>;
          Sat, 30 Jan 1993 19:50:20 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA12250@X> for info-andrew; Sat, 30 Jan 93 19:50:15 EST
Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.63/1.43)
	id AA20273; Sat, 30 Jan 93 16:48:02 -0800
Path: ucbvax!dog.ee.lbl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!xrxedds!xrxedds!liebman
From: xrxedds!liebman@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Chris Liebman)
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Re: color printing
Message-Id: <LIEBMAN.93Jan19072947@zod.xrxedds.UUCP>
Date: 19 Jan 93 12:29:47 GMT
Sender: news@xrxedds.com (News Administration)
Organization: Xerox EDDS, Herndon, Va.
Lines: 16
Nntp-Posting-Host: zod
Apparently-To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu


   Well, I got no immediate responces to my post asking if anyone had
gotten color printing to work so I took a stab at it.  It is now
working here. I am using groff here and my changes depend on using the
groff \X'ps: exec <red> <green> <blue> setrgbcolor ' command. I also 
change the font mapping to troff to use an external table that is read
in during initialization.  If anyone is intrested I supose that I
could clean it up a little and mail it to any intrested parties.

				-- Chris

--
Chris Liebman		Work			Home
Internet:	liebman@xrxedds.com	liebman@zod.xrxedds.com
UUCP:		uunet!xrxedds!liebman	uunet!bopper!zod!liebman
Phone:		1-703-787-2032		1-703-378-2715
\enddata{text822, 277529}
\begindata{text822, 279475}
Return-path: <atkbb+Bad-Addresses@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/ak99/dists/info-andrew-nostrip.dl)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr22/susan/Mailbox/MfOyTSO00Udb85aU59>;
          Sun, 31 Jan 1993 09:53:18 -0500 (EST)
Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q002/QF.IfOyR2600UdbA5U04L>;
          Sun, 31 Jan 1993 09:50:42 -0500 (EST)
Received: from LOAN1.SP.CS.CMU.EDU by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id <AA01403@X> for info-andrew+; Sun, 31 Jan 93 09:50:37 EST
Received: from BatMail.robin.v2.13.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.LOAN1.SP.CS.CMU.EDU.sun4.mach
          via MS.5.6.LOAN1.SP.CS.CMU.EDU.sun4_mach;
          Sun, 31 Jan 1993 09:50:03 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <gfOyQPy00gpmEE0INJ@cs.cmu.edu>
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1993 09:50:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Wilfred.Hansen@cs.cmu.edu
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
        Chris Liebman <xrxedds!liebman@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: color printing
Cc: bb+org.itc.atk.ia-trail@andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <LIEBMAN.93Jan19072947@zod.xrxedds.UUCP>
References: <LIEBMAN.93Jan19072947@zod.xrxedds.UUCP>

The change to read the font table for troff at run time has long been
needed.  We'd like to see those changes and incorporate them in the
sources. 

We have already something like the color printing approach you
describe.

Thanks, 
Fred Hansen
\enddata{text822, 279475}
