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From: deb5@midway.uchicago.edu (Daniel von Brighoff)
Subject: Nosotros [was: Re: What is the origin of spanish Usted?
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References: <19970728235200.TAA04009@ladder01.news.aol.com> <EE35q2.DAD@midway.uchicago.edu> <33E4115D.B5F@postoffice.ptd.net> <33e4c6b3.1956155@news.clark.net>
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 18:46:38 GMT
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In article <33e4c6b3.1956155@news.clark.net>,
Harlan Messinger <gusty@clark.net@remove.this.part.before.sending> wrote:
>Tim Reichard <dennisr@postoffice.ptd.net> wrote:
>
>>What are the origins of other subject pronouns, namely yo, l, ello(a),
>>nosotros, and ellos?
>>
>>_T_ comes directly from Latin _tu_.

>Latin "ego" ("I")  > Spanish "yo", Portuguese "eu", Italian "io",
>French "je"
>
>Latin "ille, illa" ("this") > Spanish "el(lo), ella", Portuguese "ele,
>ela", Italian "egli, ella", French "il, elle". 

No argument with these, but...

>Latin "nos alteros" ("we others") > Spanish "nosotros", Catalan
>"nosaltres". I understand at some point a distinction was made by
>speakers between "we" is in "you and I" and "we" as in "they and I".
>Or maybe it was between "you and I" and "you and I and one or more
>others".  Anyway, the phrase meaning "we others" that was used for one
>of the alternatives came to be the general term for first person
>plural.
>
>"Vosotros" (Catalan "vosaltres") was formed by analogy with
>"nosotros".

...I had always learned that the influence was reversed, that "[p]erhaps
by imitation of 'vosotros', 'nos' is also regularly replaced by 'nosotros'
in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries."  (Penny, _A history of the
Spanish language_ (p. 124).)  I suppose I should double-check this with
Corominas o alguno.

(N.B.:  I find Penny's a clear, complete, readable account of the
development of Spanish and I recommend it.  Of course, there are more
comprehensive accounts available in Spanish, but they're a bit much for
the casual reader.)

-- 
	 Daniel "Da" von Brighoff    /\          Dilettanten
	(deb5@midway.uchicago.edu)  /__\         erhebt Euch
				   /____\      gegen die Kunst!
