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From: elna@netcom.com (Esperanto League N America)
Subject: Re: tinkerers redux (Esperanto content!) 
Message-ID: <elnaE7BMp6.DAH@netcom.com>
Organization: Esperanto League for North America, Inc.
References: <276@vision25.demon.co.uk> <brgE7706u.93I@netcom.com> <elnaE77FnH.DAF@netcom.com> <brgE78M3v.EKq@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 02:53:30 GMT
Lines: 73
Sender: elna@netcom23.netcom.com

brg@netcom.com (Bruce R. Gilson) writes in a recent posting (reference <brgE78M3v.EKq@netcom.com>):
>
>As far as I am concerned, E-o is just as much a project as Novial. And it
>will continue to be a project in my mind until the first day I hear two
>persons walking on the street, conversing in Esperanto, or go to a library
>in my metropolitan area and see a book IN (as opposed to ON) Esperanto, or
>go to a bookstore and see a book, either IN or ON Esperanto, other than
>"Teach Yourself" types or dictionaries. And until that point, UNLESS it allows
>tinkering to get it right, it's a lost cause in my mind.
>
I am glad to see you use such phrases as "as far as I am concerned" and 
"in my mind" for this puts a good restriction on the validity of statements
to follow. I recognise full well that your assessment is not objective,
and warmly welcome such confession of subjectivity.
If your local bookstore contained no books about Tibet, would you conclude
that that country did not exist?  Have you ever heard people speaking
Tibetan? Do you doubt that that language exists?  

>I have never, in 50+ years of my life, heard a word of Esperanto spoken,
>except someone correcting my pronunciation of "Asocio" over the phone. 

Such is your loss! It is a melodious tongue...
I
>have only seen one Esperantist on IRC (other than in the #conlang channel)
>and I have never seen a letter (either e-mail or paper) in E-o, except on
>the conlang or auxlang list. I have never seen a book in Esperanto, 

Might I send you a catalog of our humble offering of 1000 titles? UEA's
catalog has 8000! There are (according to rumour) some 15000 books in
print or still available-- but most too esoteric even for UEA's libroservo.
To be sure, this is a pittance compared to the tens of millions of titles
available in English, but *far* outtreaches any other conlang.


           except
>for one in a used book store, and that one was filed as if it were an Esper-
>anto practice book, rather than in religion (it was a life of Buddha), so
>clearly (since foreign-language books in that store usually were filed by
>subject) the store-keeper felt nobody would buy it except someone trying to
>learn Esperanto. 
>
Well, don't blame any Esperantist for the sins of some shopkeeper.

>Saying that Esperanto is a language and the others are merely projects is
>a delusion. Within your association, you run into Esperantists daily, but
>this is like someone who attends Libertarian Party meetings (and so sees
>dozens of Libertarians) thinking that we will soon have a Libertarian
>president because he sees so many people who would vote that way.
>
Sorry, pal. This won't do.

>I do not make the distinction that you consider so important, because it
>does not exist.
>
Nonsense. Esperanto is an established language with a vibrant international
community which constantly publishes new novels, supports music groups,
gives birth to babies who grow up speaking Esperanto, etc. This is unique
in the conlang world. Lojban is still under construction, as is Novial,
Eurolang, etc. Perhaps Interlingua has stopped being an ongoing project
(I confess I am unsure about this) but *no other* constructed language
has developed a stable community and serious body of literature. The 
distinction is quite real and readily verifiable.

This said, I encourage you to continue with Novial, and others with their
various projects. Perhaps perfection is attainable-- go for it!!  But for
any readers (if anybody is still following this vulgar slugfest) who are
searching an International Auxiliary Language *that works* NOW in the
real world, I suggest that they look into Esperanto.  
-- 
Miko SLOPER              elna@netcom.com              USA  (510) 653 0998
Direktoro de la          ftp.netcom.com:/pub/el/elna   fax (510) 653 1468 
Centra Oficejo de la     Learn Esperanto! Free lessons: e-mail/snail-mail
Esperanto-Ligo de N.A.   Write to above address or call:  1-800-ESPERANTO
