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From: petrich@netcom.com (Loren Petrich)
Subject: Re: SF & Language - Minimums
Message-ID: <petrichE70yF8.M6I@netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom
References: <01bc265a$a239f270$275ee8cd@sal9000> <5fmcuq$rbq@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu> <petrichE6t25t.For@netcom.com> <5g11ei$8jq@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 08:33:08 GMT
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In article <5g11ei$8jq@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>,
John M. Lawler <jlawler@frogger.rs.itd.umich.edu> wrote:

	[John Lilly trying to teach dolphins to make human phonemes...]

>But what kind of thing might they be preferring?  The concept of linear
>segmental phonemes is a human one, and given the far greater complexity
>of dolphins' aural-sonic system, it's not a likely one for them to
>have evolved.

	I'm not sure what you mean by that -- do you mean whether or not 
speech sounds are intended to be non-overlapping?

>>>And dolphins are related to us. ...

>>	The youngest common ancestor, however, lived about 70 million
>>years ago, and would have looked something like a small rodent or
>>insectivore, though without the rodentian specialization of gnawing
>>incisors. This ancestor was very likely nocturnal, meaning that its 
>>vision was relatively poor; the closest thing to language it would have 
>>had would have been some mouse-ish squeaks.

>Granted.  However, there's still DNA in common. ...

	So what? All of Earth life has some biochemistry in common -- 
which has *not* precluded numerous instances of multiple evolution.

>Imagine a language without "up/down" metaphors.  Very inhuman. 

	I'm sure that dolphins would have to have some conception of 
vertical direction -- because upward is where the air is.

>As Wittgenstein pointed out, if lions could speak, we couldn't
>understand them.

	I wouldn't be too sure about that -- lions would have their 
environment in common with us, even if a lion would have some rather 
different preoccupations.
-- 
Loren Petrich				Happiness is a fast Macintosh
petrich@netcom.com			And a fast train
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