Newsgroups: sci.lang
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!news.jsums.edu!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news1.erols.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!alderson
From: alderson@netcom.com (Richard M. Alderson III)
Subject: Re: Need help refuting absurd linguistics claim
In-Reply-To: William Earl Griffin's message of 3 Apr 1996 22:03:54 GMT
Message-ID: <aldersonDpCorI.HFz@netcom.com>
Reply-To: alderson@netcom.com
Fcc: /u9/alderson/postings
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <4jsplp$p7l@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <4juska$16m@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:30:54 GMT
Lines: 41
Sender: alderson@netcom18.netcom.com

In article <4juska$16m@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> William Earl Griffin
<WGriffin@mail.utexas.edu> writes:

>As far as the translation of lexical items are concerned, I know of no
>instance where a language has opted to systematically miss-name or rename
					^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>identifable, distinguishable objects or animals with the names of other
>objects or animals.

The problem for those who attempt to argue against assertions such as that
reported in the initial posting in this thread is that use of names *does*
occur sporadically.  Two examples, one common-place and one a bit further
afield:

1.  As I understand it, the word "robin" refers, in the British Isles, to a
small sparrow-like bird with red breast feathers.  English-speaking immigrants
into North America found a native thrush, much larger than the robin, with
orange to red-orange breast feathers, and promptly adopted the name for the
local bird.

2.  An apparently anomalous cognate in the Athapaskan languages is due to an
extension of the same kind:  A Navaho word for "gourd" is cognate with a word
for "caribou antler" in the northern branch.  The explanation (which appears in
Sapir, though I do not remember if it originated with him) is that the two
materials are used for the same function, that is, one makes spoons with both.

What happens is that those who for whatever reason wish to believe that mass
renamings take place assume that this kind of thing happens systematically
rather than sporadically.

>Anyone making such an argument obviously has no conception of how language
>works.  I can't even suggest a good work to cite because the claim is so
>ludicrous that it cannot even be seriously entertained.

I would suggest the writings of Rulon Wells, who used to teach diachronic
semantics at Yale.
-- 
Rich Alderson   You know the sort of thing that you can find in any dictionary
                of a strange language, and which so excites the amateur philo-
                logists, itching to derive one tongue from another that they
                know better: a word that is nearly the same in form and meaning
                as the corresponding word in English, or Latin, or Hebrew, or
                what not.
                                                --J. R. R. Tolkien,
alderson@netcom.com                               _The Notion Club Papers_
