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From: deb5@ellis.uchicago.edu (Daniel von Brighoff)
Subject: Re: Pronouncing your name in another language
Message-ID: <1995Jan15.221000.16067@midway.uchicago.edu>
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Reply-To: deb5@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
References: <3f5tif$l5o@nic.umass.edu> <9501423.14645@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> <3f9l2v$l20@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 22:10:00 GMT
Lines: 56

In article <3f9l2v$l20@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> Marek1@ix.netcom.com (Marek Konski) writes:

[much deleted]
>These "translated names", in my opinion can be used baptize people in 
>their countries but not to "re-baptize" foreigners. I think that not 
>pronunciation problems matter here but simple inertia, ignorance, and 
>arogance. Why for example in Poland John is pronounced "Dzhon", Einstein 
>is still -- Ajn-sztajn, Stolz -- Sztolc, and Giovanni -- Dzhiovanni 
>while in America Jaworski (as simple as Yavorski) becomes Dzhiauohrsky, 
>Leszczynski (Lesh-chynski) becomes Lessyhnsky, and Andrzej (Andzhey) 
>-- Andriej? Why in Italy every Jan has to be Giovanni but every John 
>remains Dzhon? I think that we talk about arogance in one case and 
>servility in the other. 

One factor that complicates matters in the US is the existence of
a large pool of "naturalised" family names that are no longer pro-
nounced like their antecedents.  One cannot describe these pronunci-
ations are wrong because, regardless of their origins, they are the
ones preferred by the bearers of the names themselves.

For example, take the element "stein," very common in German and
Yiddish names.  In standard German, it is pronounced [shtain]; in
dialects, it may become [stain], [shtein], [shtoa], etc.  The
situation is similar in Yiddish.

So when one encountres an American name with the element "stein,"
one never knows whether the bearer uses:
1) the Standard German pronunciation ([shtain])
2) an Americanised variant of this ([stain], etc.)
3) the Standard Yiddish pronunciation ([shtein])
4) an Americanised variant of this ([stein], [stiin], etc.)
5) a dialectal German or Yiddish pronunication (too numerous to 
mention)
6) an Americanised variant of this (likewise).

To be sure, certain variants (2 and 4b) are more common than
others, but the point is that even knowing the language of origin
may be of little help in divining someone's personal preference.

So is it any wonder Americans mess up names like "Perez" (Castilian
[pe'reth], Latin American [pe'res], Hebrew ['per@z])?  If I call
my friend David Wojechowski [vojexofski] instead of [woudzh@hauski]", 
he won't recogise that I'm talking to him. Ignorance of a largely 
non-avoidable variety (i.e. what a particular person prefers--I had
no idea, for instance, that Mr. Smailer's name wasn't pronounced to
rhyme with "mailer") is more to blame than arrogance.  I'm sure that
if Poland controlled all of Europe (an area smaller and encompassing
less cultural diversity than the United States), the same problem
would arise.  



-- 
	 Daniel "Da" von Brighoff    /\          Dilettanten
	(deb5@midway.uchicago.edu)  /__\         erhebt Euch
				   /____\      gegen die Kunst!
