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From: stam@chat.carleton.ca (Simon Tam)
Subject: Re: FUCK CANTONESE!!! SPEAK HAKKA
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References: <3bmiu9$qm9@tamsun.tamu.edu> <3c28amINN81n@ada.cis.ohio-state.edu> <3c3dgu$fba@agate.berkeley.edu> <Pine.SOL.3.91.941206211539.12772A-100000@dale> <D0JK8q.LJ7@pegasus.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 18:23:55 GMT
Lines: 76

Wing Ng (wing@pegasus.com) wrote:
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.941206211539.12772A-100000@dale>,
> Xiaofan Dong  <ez000796@peseta.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
> >On 7 Dec 1994, Bruce Shuling Chang wrote:
> >> 
> >> Cantonese itself is possibly older than Hoklo.  Put it this way:  

> Hoklo kept several very old features of the language, like
> having no "f" sound, but in general, Cantonese has more old
> features than Hoklo.

> >> whatever is current in Northern China is the most recent because 
> >> incursions into China happen ALMOST always in the North.  The original 
> >> Northerners fled to the South, where geographical isolation has kept 
> >> their dialects alive.
> >> 
> >> Bruce
> >> 
> >Although I dislike the subject title, I am gald to see the discussion 
> >switched to a more positive diretion (at least by my opinion), i.e., the 
> >evolution of chinese dialect. Coming from of background of for dialects 
> >(Cantonese, Mandarin, Hakka and Hokkien, one grandparent each), I speak 
> >Cantonese and Mandarin fluently, understand Hakka quite well and some 
> >Hokkien. The results of my personal comparative linguistic studies is 
> >that Cantonese and Mandarin seem to be two extremes, Hakka shares some 
> >similarities between these two dialects (I don't know where to fit 

> That's about right.

> >Hokkien since I haven't fully grasped it yet). According to my 
> >understanding Hakka people originated from central China and they were 
> >defeated during wars (don't ask me which one, I simply don't know) and 
> >spreaded out all over the country and even the world. However, they still 

> Cantonese too, came from North or Central China, according
> to legend and history.  Presumably they intermarried more
> with the Vietnamese-like natives.

> >maintain their unique and ancient traditions no matter where they go. 
> >Whereas Cantonese is only heard in the south of China, I would suspect it 
> >is quite remote from Mandarin and may represent an even more ancient 
> >language which went extinction in the Northern part of the country due to 

> Cantonese is very similar to Tang dynasty Chinese, as spoken.
> This is proven by scholarly works.  Presumably they arrived
> in Guangdong about Tang times and kept the language the same
> ever since.

> >the Mandarin ruling. So my evolutionary time table is 
> >Cantonese->Hakka->Mandarin. This is purely a personal observationa and 
> >there is no scientific basis for it. I would love to hear other 
> >discussions from different perspective. Come on, where are all the 
> >linguistics and anthropology students and researchers? I want to know my 
> >roots better. (serious inputs only).

> Check out sci.lang.

> Wing

> >-XFD
> >

Guys, 
	I believed that people have their right to speak their mother
language. And people who cannot get worth from it shouldn't attack the
culture of us. From my point of view, the guy who say this must be
fucking crazy because they look like a fool. Being a smart guy won't do
such stupid thing. And from my heart, I will forgive those who have
not been educated. This will make them feel better, I guess. 

Simon Tam

Carleton University
Email address: stam@chat.carleton.ca
Freenet address: hb298@freenet.carleton.ca

