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From: mcv@inter.NL.net (Miguel Carrasquer)
Subject: Re: Limousin (was Re: Language and genes)
Message-ID: <D0J5J4.Kr3@inter.NL.net>
Organization: NLnet
References: <634@percep.demon.co.uk> <aldersonD0Eox1.DBr@netcom.com> <3c5d21$p2l@medici.trl.OZ.AU> <3c7sp8$i43@ss1.cam.nist.gov>
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 06:18:39 GMT
Lines: 62

In article <3c7sp8$i43@ss1.cam.nist.gov>,
John E Koontz <koontz@cam.nist.gov> wrote:
>In article <3c5d21$p2l@medici.trl.OZ.AU>, jbm@newsserver.trl.oz.au (Jacques Guy) writes:
>|> There is also the case of Limousin which has me quite puzzled. In short,
>|> Limousin has switched sibilants and shibilants. Thus for instance:
>|> 
>|> Limousin /sasha/  (spelt "chac,ar") French /shase/ ("chasser")
>|> Limousin /rozhi~/ (spelt "rasim")   French /rEzE~/ ("raisin")
>|> 
>|> The correspondences are absolutely regular. I find it hard to account
>|> cleanly for such a phonological switch through gradual changes. All
>|> the more so that the switch must be fairly recent, as the traditional
>|> spelling indicates.
>
>Something similar happens between Mandan and the rest of Siouan.  There is
>a fairly unsatisfying article on this in IJAL, c. 1970, by G.H. Matthews.
>
>I've always assumed that the explanation is something like:
>
>PS     Ma             Rest of Siouan
>*c^    *c^ > *c > s   *c^ > s^
>*s     *s  > s^       *s > s
>
>I'm not sure if that makes sense for Limousin, though ch /s^/ was originally
>*c^, I believe, and remains so in old Norman French loans in English, cf.
>chief vs chef.
>

My only source on Occitan (Pierre Bec, "Que sais-je? La langue Occitane")
agrees with you.  The palatalization of k before a is taken as the
dividing line between Northern Occitan (Limousin, Auvergnat and
Vivaro-Alpin) and Southern Occitan (Provenc,al, Languedocien and
Gascon).  It seems to be very old (VIth century) and is in a way a
transition to French and Franco-Provenc,al.
Quoting:
"..l'e'volution ka > ts^a, avec ses sous-produits (ts^a > tsa > sa)
a cre'e' en nord-occitan un bouleversement des syste`mes phonologiques
par rapport a` l'occitan moyen; ex.: occ. moyen : [kanta`, fats^o,
suna`] <<chanter, faite, sonner>>, face a` certains parlers nord-occ.:
[santa`, faso, s^una`]."

Another interesting case of "sound reversal" (which I might have 
mentioned before) occurs in a language that is sometimes also called
"llemosi'" (i.e. Catalan: the term "llengua llemosina" has its
roots way back in the troubadour era when Occitan was the literary 
language).  In Catalan, Vulgar Latin [E] has become [e], and
[e] has become [E].  

Mallorcan gives an indication of the possible intermediate stage: 
there, [e] -> [@] (schwa), and [E] -> [e].

	e 
	| \ 
	|  @
	| /
	E 


-- 
Miguel Carrasquer         ____________________  ~~~
Amsterdam                [                  ||]~  
mcv@inter.NL.net         ce .sig n'est pas une .cig 
