Newsgroups: sci.lang
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!rochester!udel!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!sarima
From: sarima@netcom.com (Stanley Friesen)
Subject: Re: What are Scythians?
Message-ID: <sarimaCzJ9tp.n4C@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <rsavageCyt0CM.5L7@netcom.com> <hubey.784662659@pegasus.montclair.edu> <sarimaCzE1yE.2w7@netcom.com> <3aen6l$g6b@pilot.njin.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 21:17:49 GMT
Lines: 58

In article <3aen6l$g6b@pilot.njin.net>, Hubey <hubey@pilot.njin.net> wrote:
>sarima@netcom.com (Stanley Friesen) writes:
>
>
>>Oh, it could be.  But the recent identification of the
>>Hurrian-Urartian languages as Caucasian tends to put the
>>homeland of the Caucasian languages in Anatolia, not in
>>the Ukraine. 
>
>Does this have anything to do with Gamkrelidze's theories
>about the IE folks coming into contact with Kartvelian
>in Anatolia before moving around the Caspian to their
>alleged Black Sea haunts?

No, as Kartvelian is NOT a subgroup of the Caucasian languages,
but a seperate major family.  There is *no* trace of any Kartvelian
language outside of the Caucasus as yet.

The Caucasian Family as it is recognised today is what used to
be called the North Caucasian group.  Hurrian-Urartian is
assigned to one branch of this group (?the old Northeast?).

As far as I am concerned, the oldest good evidence for IE speakers
in Anatolia is Troy II, which has a megalon style building.  This
at least *suggests* that the IE speakers entered Anatolia from
the Balkans.
>
>>My reason for suggesting IE is that the area is, IMHO, the
>>best candidate for the IE homeland, and it seems at least
>>reasonable that an IE language would have persisted there
>>until the Scythian invasion.
>
>Wouldn't this place be a strange place for an ethnic group
>to be isolated from the rest of the world for a long time?
>And isn't it a little odd for these people not to have 
>a word for "sea"?

Prior to the time that the Cimmerians entered history, this
area was well outside of the zone of civilization.  None of
the oldest major trade routes went through that way - although
there is evidence that the Pontic Steppes traded with the
Balkans for bronze (a rather short trade route on the periphery
of civilization).

A steppe tribe in that area would not necessarily be fully aware
of the Black Sea for what it was, since they would live mostly
furhter indland.  However, it is *not* clear that PIE had no
word for sea: its various words for a body of water all have
complex histories, obscuring the original meanings.  Both
*mori and *laku are possible candidates for "sea". (Although
the age of *mori is doubtful).


-- 
NAMES: sarima@netcom.com swf@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com

May the peace of God be with you.

