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From: Russ McManus <mcmanr@nytrdc058.eq.gs.com>
Subject: Re: Ousterhout and Tcl lost the plot with latest paper
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Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 13:45:39 GMT
Xref: glinda.oz.cs.cmu.edu comp.lang.scheme:19421 comp.lang.scheme.scsh:538 comp.lang.lisp:26535 comp.lang.tcl:66070 comp.lang.functional:8723 comp.lang.c++:259653 comp.lang.perl.misc:73192 comp.lang.python:20705 comp.lang.eiffel:19442

mr. ousterhout-

many thanks for producing the wonderful tk and tcl libraries.

i do take issue with one of your main points however.  you
seem to think that tcl sits on the curve of pareto optimality
between language power and 'glueing' facility.  

the pareto optimum is the curve that describes the trade off
between two competing value functions; it shows where one can 
not improve in one direction with out going backwards in the 
other.

please forgive the ascii charts:


  g |  .
  l |
  u |  . 
  e |   *  <---tcl
  i |    .
  n |	                  c++
  g |	   .          	   |
    |	      .            |
  e |	         .         v
  a |	            .
  s |	               	 . * .
  e |
    +-----------------------------
           language power ->


however, i think the situation looks more like this:
   
  
  g |      .
  l |
  u |      .
  e |   *   * <--stk, e.g.
  i |   ^    .
  n |   |                      c++
  g |   |      .      	        |
    |  tcl        .         	|
  e |                .         	v
  a |                  	.
  s |                  	     . 	* .
  e |
    +-----------------------------
           language power ->


as an example, i present erick gallesio's wonderful
scheme system stk, which is a combination of your very
own tk library with scheme instead of tcl.

the interface to tk is quite sparse, very nearly as
clean as tcl's.  and the programmer gets the additional
power of scheme as compared to tcl.

as for glueing, there is a complete foreign function
interface that is well documented and very easy to use.
dynamic loading is supported.

i agree that scripting/glue languages have necessary trade
offs; i also think that it is possible to have scripting
languages that are considerably more powerful than tcl.

-russ

--
Russell D. McManus             phone: 212-357-4901
Goldman, Sachs & Co.            beep: 917-556-0708
Intl. Equities Technology
