Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
From: ohgs@chatham.demon.co.uk (Oliver Sparrow)
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!news2.near.net!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!chatham.demon.co.uk!ohgs
Subject: Re: Large-scale quantum effects (Was Re: Penrose's new book)
References: <Cx967I.LzF@sun2.iusb.indiana.edu> <pja1.15.00F30E84@rsvl.unisys.com> <CxMF4D.Bro@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca> <kovskyCxo4yx.EE5@netcom.com> <Cxu1Dv.22n@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>
Organization: Royal Institute of International Affairs
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Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:48:35 +0000
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In article <Cxu1Dv.22n@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>
           pindor@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca "Andrzej Pindor" writes:

 > ...... in certain situations (like superconductivity,
 > superfluidity or in lasers) individual microscopic quantum phenomena are
 > strongly correlated and quantum laws operate on macroscopic scale.
 > Such 'large-scale quantum action' is postulated by some people to play role
 > in the brain and is not an oxymoron. Whether it does indeed play role in
 > the brain is another story.

We have a bundle of concepts which we use in order to talk about what we 
observe in very small and simple systems. We make a fundamental assumption that 
because we tend to make complicated thinsg out of simple components, then the 
universe is necessarily organised in the same way: you unpack a jaguar from the 
freeway and you get engineering parts; you unpack a jaguar from the jungle 
and you get organs, both are made of atoms; so both can be reduced to atoms, so 
it follows - does it not? - that the rules which govern atomic affairs govern 
the affairs of jaguars.

This is neither a sensible flow of logic nor does it fit with what we know 
about reality. The understanding that we have of how to think about top-level 
predators (or the marketing of automobiles) does not reduce to "atomic" terms 
of reference. When these systems - vehicle markets, snarles and squeals in the 
undergrowth - adjust themselves (or when we set out to adjust them) the 
processes which are wrapped up in creating the new system (the "algorithm" 
which generates it) do not often or necessarily evoke ideas which we have of 
how atoms fit together any more than they evoke the processes of mass 
extinction or highway safety regulation by which the fundamental precursors of 
these activities are set. One can argue that these things are there, involute, 
but that we do not take regard of them: but *neither* *does* *the* *algorithm*
in which a response is cast.

There are useless models which can be advanced: things are the way they because 
it is Willed, small green people from the planet Zarg control our thoughts 
("Yes! Even your pitiful attempts to argue with the Truth!"). There is a 
significant unknown at the heart of our understanding, which is that we do not 
know how to think about cognition and awareness - we do not have the language 
in which to discuss these matters in the way that we do have such a language in 
which to talk about predator-prey relations or the definition of market niches 
for high performance cars aimed at the elderly. Where there is a conceptual 
vacuum, hot air is sure to follow: and the gentle zephyrs which blow sigh "it's 
all quantum thingies: like, vibrations, man." This is not useful because it 
unifies no evidence, takes one no further forward towards a general 
understanding and distracts from more fruitful lines of enquiry, such as asking 
what we actually know about cognition and neurons. Like a Fortyniner boiling 
his boots to gain a full belly, it is without nourishment.

_________________________________________________

  Oliver Sparrow
  ohgs@chatham.demon.co.uk
