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Article 4171 of comp.ai.philosophy:
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>From: zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny)
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy,sci.philosophy.tech
Subject: Re: Definition of understanding
Message-ID: <1992Feb29.133816.9316@husc3.harvard.edu>
Date: 29 Feb 92 18:38:15 GMT
References: <1992Feb23.044200.29383@mp.cs.niu.edu> <1992Feb23.015634.9079@husc3.harvard.edu> <447@tdatirv.UUCP>
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.
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Nntp-Posting-Host: zariski.harvard.edu

In article <447@tdatirv.UUCP> 
sarima@tdatirv.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) writes:

>In article <1992Feb23.015634.9079@husc3.harvard.edu>
>zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes: 

MZ:
>|The fact that, in spite of having conducted interminable discussions on
>|this subject, you've yet to come up with a conclusive and persuasive
>|refutation of Searle's argument leaves me on the horns of a dilemma:
>|
>|(i) Either you and your coreligionists lack the requisite eristic
>|*cleverness* needed in order to make a suitable impression on Searle's
>|public; 
>|
>|or
>|
>|(ii) The lack is in your abject failure to *understand* the argument.

SF:
>or iii) we prefer to leave the question open until actual verifiable evidence
>is available as to what is true, leaving vacuous logical argumentation to
>philosophers and reactionaries.

For a number of reasons, you are in no position to leave the question open.
First, Searle's argument constitutes a legitimate attempt to formulate an
a priori claim that your enterprise is flawed in principle; hence your
request for verifiable evidence doesn't address the issue at all, while the
attempts to refute Searle on philosophical grounds have all failed so far.
Second, the available empirical evidence, not least of which is the abject
failure of AI research to deliver on its promises, is all against you.
Third, if the AI side were really "prefer[red] to leave the question open",
there wouldn't be so many hacks of the Dennett--Hofstadter type jumping up
and down screaming at it; the fact is, your side is bothered by it and
wishes it would go away.  Finally, the premisses and the methodology of
Searle's argument are well estabilished both in empirical disciplines, like
linguistics, and in analytic ones, like logic and mathematics; to the
extent that computer science is parasitic on them, you are chopping away
your own foundations each time you take a swing.

SF:
>I do *not* claim to have any final answer, I just find that Searle's
>arguments rely too much on unverified, and currently unverifiable,
>opinions about what constitutes 'understanding'.

I normally abstain from responding to comments of this sort, just as I
abstain from commenting on the foundations of any other religious belief.
This time, I'll make an exception.  The whole point of Searle's argument is
that, if he is right, there is an a priori reason as to why the question of
computer understanding may not be decidable by empirical evidence like the
Turing test.  Hence, your "finding" is merely begging the question of the
truth of his argument.

SF:
>Thus, nothing proven, I keep an open mind.

This has to be the funniest thing I've ever seen on the net!

>-- 
>---------------
>uunet!tdatirv!sarima				(Stanley Friesen)


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