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From: stevens@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu (Greg Stevens)
Subject: Re: Thought Question
Message-ID: <1995Jan18.162201.23092@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>
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Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 16:22:01 GMT
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In <1995Jan17.165214.13861@walter.cray.com> mwd@cray.com (Mark Dalton) writes:
>Greg Stevens (stevens@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu) wrote:

>: And here I thought love was the overstimulation of the opiate receptors
>: in the hypothalamus.  :-)

>: >Love is
>: >not a pattern of bits encoded in the neural network of the brain.
>: References?  Proof?

>I guess first you will need to define 'Love', the feeling that one 
>physically feels - yes opiate receptors.  The emotional/mental position
>towards another I think is more that just opiate receptors.  Also in
>biology there is almost never anything that is one for one.
>ie. if 'a' therefore 'b'.  It is a MUCH more complex system.  Affection
>is more than the physical warmth, lightness, and joy one may feel it
>is also a 'stance/enthusiasm' toward a person.

Saying that the process of mapping of brain activity onto subjective emotion
is NOT saying that that emotion is not manifested by neural processes.  It
could be very very very complex, and still be "encoded in the neural network
of the brain."

>: >Love is not a determinism of automata theory. Is feeling how another 
>: >is feeling, through empathy, through identity, even through physical
>: >observation and reasoning by analogs of our own experience still
>: >comes to down to an inner state of feeling.

>: This can't be coded in the brain?  This can't be physically experiential?

>Not as far as is known.  Can you force someone to Love someone, ie. not
>just the physical stimulation and not lust.  It is a sense of a person
>being 'in sync', perhaps one day it _may_ be posible.  (But then is that
>love??)

Just because you can't force someone to feel something doesn't mean it is not
encoded in the brain.  I can't force you to believe that it is 4 a.m. right
not, that doesn't mean that the knowledge we have of what time it is is not
coded in the brain.  Why do you think the "sense" of a person being in sync
can not be coded in the brain?

Note, "love" has nothing to do with actually beig in sync, just the feeling,
and as a subjective feeling, it seems it would be reflected in some pattern
structurally in the person, unless you are a spiritual dualist.

>: > The feeling of well being,
>: >anger, humor, the joy in learning, and so much more is beyond the
>: >states of bits encoded in the brain. 

>: Once again, do you have proof for this assertion?  References?  There is
>: a lot of research going into emotions and their underlying neurochemistry
>: and neurophysioanatomy, you know.  Should we tell them all to give it up?

>Again, I think he is right.  It is not a matter of turn this switch and
>it is okay.  We are talking about a VERY complex system, there are multiple
>factors (100's of posibilities) for just one response, each response has
>a variety of levels (fuzzy logic, it is not 0 or 1, it is somewhere in 
>between) is the type of concept.

Just because something is complex does not mean it is not encodable in the
brain.  So far twice I have asked you (or anyone) to give evidence of the
assertion that these things (love, etc) are not coded or codable in the
brain, and the response I have gotten was "it's complicated."  This is
not good reasoning.

Greg Stevens

stevens@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu

