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From: simon@rheged.dircon.co.uk (Simon Brooke)
Subject: Re: Lisp considered unfinished
Message-ID: <D9ynpq.6qz@rheged.dircon.co.uk>
Organization: none. Disorganization: total.
References: <neves-0206950926120001@neves.ils.nwu.edu> <ddyerD9pqo2.GKx@netcom.com> <3r0v3d$bvp@tools.near.net> <3r5ads$60l@news.aero.org>
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Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 14:17:48 GMT
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Xref: glinda.oz.cs.cmu.edu comp.lang.lisp:18093 comp.lang.lisp.mcl:7205 comp.lang.lisp.franz:529 comp.lang.lisp.x:1574 comp.lang.clos:3208

In article <3r5ads$60l@news.aero.org>, John Doner <doner@aero.org> wrote:
>In article <3r0v3d$bvp@tools.near.net>,
>Barry Margolin <barmar@nic.near.net> wrote:
>>But before programmers can use Lisp for large
>>applications they need to get their feet wet on small ones, and Lisp
>>usually isn't the appropriate language for little applications (the 5MB
>>"hello world" binary is the usual example).
>
>Hear, hear.  I would like to add the perspective of a professor who
>would like to teach Lisp dialects to students of math and computer
>science, but who has trouble making it work.  An important part of
>the problem is the size and complexity of the environment within
>which the learner must learn.  Since students' computers are apt to
>be small, maybe slow, this is a big obstacle.  So is cost.  (Gambit
>scheme solves the cost problem, maybe the size problem, and part of
>the complexity problem, so I do use that.)  But there are other
>serious obstacles.

This is because we conflate 'LisP' with 'Common LISP'. Common LISP is
a very big language. That doesn't mean LisP has to be a very big
language. I learned LisP on Auntie Beeb's Micro, which had a maximum
32Kb of RAM, into which all the operating system buffers and the
screen had to be fitted, as well as your LisP program. It was a very
nice system, complete with an in-core structure editor and an easy to
use break package. I and my immediate colleagues continued to rapid
prototype algorithms on our BBC Micros long after we had Xerox
Dandelions to play with.

A good small LisP may be better for teaching than a good big one,
because there's so much less to distract the learner.


-- 
------- simon@rheged.dircon.co.uk (Simon Brooke)

			;; I'd rather live in sybar-space
