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From: John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>
Subject: Re: productive in-laws & colloquial crocodiles
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 15:52:56 GMT
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On sci.lang wrote:
> 
> Two queries: I.  re: productivity of "-in-law"
>       &      II. re: use of crocodiles in idoms and colloquialisms
> 
> I. How productive (or how fossilized is the English kinship suffix "-in-law"?
> I frequently refer to my cousins' spouses as my "cousins-in-law",
> whereupon my (third-party) interlocutors often look at me as askancely as
> if I had called *them* *"interlocutors"*.  "Cousin-in-law" *feels normal
> _to me_*, but I get the impression I am in the minority on the matter.
> So... I thought I'd explore sci.lang's opinions.
> 
> I am assuming (tell me if I'm wrong) that "mother-, father- brother-,
> sister-, daughter-, son- in-law" are standard kinship terms in all
> native-speaker dialects of English, and cover pretty much the same
> semantic fields for all speakers.
> 
> Do you ever use...  Do you ever hear/see...  Do you object to...
> 
> cousin-in-law?
> uncle/aunt-in-law?
> nephew/niece-in-law?
> children-in-law (= son(s)- *and* daughter(s)-in-law)?
> parents-in-law?
> grandparents-in-law?
> grand-in-laws? (or great-in-laws?)?
> shirttail-cousin-in-law?
> shirttail in-laws? (meaning...  ?)
> ex-in-law (meaning "my spouse's ex") /primary stress normally on ex-/
> ex-in-laws (meaning "my ex's parents [and other relatives?]") /primary
>              stress accent normally on -in-/
> friend(s)-in-law?
> relatives[ or relations]-in-law?
> any other -in-law terms (boss-in-law, penpal-in-law, etc.)

I find all of these terms strange, although I *understand* them well
enough.  I would call them "learned" terms, whereas "m-i-l" and "f-i-l"
and the others you list are "popular" terms.

> Does the term "one's in-laws" mean for you *only* or *usually only* one's
> spouse's *parents*, or does it include *all* those to whom you are
> related by marriage?

For me, all those related by marriage.
 
> Do you use or understand "-in-law" terms to refer only to relationship by
> legal/formal/ritual marriage, or is it also readily usable for
> relationships via SOSSLQs, SOOSLQs, mere boy/girl-friends, etc.?

Only the legal ones.
 
> II.  In English, "crocodile tears" are insincere tokens of grief, regret
> or sadness.  In Russian, _Krokodil_ was a satirical magazine in the late
> Soviet period (is it still published?).  In colloquial Esperanto,
> "krokodili" is a verb meaning "to speak one's native ethnic tongue in a
> social context where Esperanto would be more appropriate.  (A bit of
> Esperanto folk etymology derives this verb from the Japanese "arigato"
> meaning "Thank you"; and some Esperantists have assigned meanings
> inspired by "krokodili" to other verbalized crocodilians:  aligatori,
> kajmani, gaviali... [cf. my .sig infra, where I guess "krokodiledi" means
> "to use Nahuatl in English and Esperanto media"] though my impression is
> none of these has gained wide currency.)  I'm interested in knowing more
> about the idioms and metaphorical usages in which various languages
> employ the crocodile.

I find this folk-etymology unintelligible.  Could you explain?

The story about "krokodili" that I heard was that in the DP camps after
WWI, Esperanto was taught by a technique that involved passing around
a toy object --- notionally, at least, a toy croc.  Whoever was holding
the croc was the only person who could speak in a national language.
Can you confirm or deny this story?

-- 
John Cowan						cowan@ccil.org
			e'osai ko sarji la lojban
