Newsgroups: sci.lang
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From: lilandbr@scn.org (Leland Bryant Ross)
Subject: productive in-laws & colloquial crocodiles
Message-ID: <DzrCKK.M5C@scn.org>
Sender: news@scn.org
Reply-To: lilandbr@scn.org (Leland Bryant Ross)
Organization: Seattle Community Network
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 02:07:31 GMT
Lines: 80



Two queries: I.  re: productivity of "-in-law"
      &      II. re: use of crocodiles in idoms and colloquialisms

I. How productive (or how fossilized is the English kinship suffix "-in-law"?
I frequently refer to my cousins' spouses as my "cousins-in-law", 
whereupon my (third-party) interlocutors often look at me as askancely as 
if I had called *them* *"interlocutors"*.  "Cousin-in-law" *feels normal 
_to me_*, but I get the impression I am in the minority on the matter.  
So... I thought I'd explore sci.lang's opinions.

I am assuming (tell me if I'm wrong) that "mother-, father- brother-, 
sister-, daughter-, son- in-law" are standard kinship terms in all 
native-speaker dialects of English, and cover pretty much the same 
semantic fields for all speakers.

Do you ever use...  Do you ever hear/see...  Do you object to...

cousin-in-law?
uncle/aunt-in-law?
nephew/niece-in-law?
children-in-law (= son(s)- *and* daughter(s)-in-law)?
parents-in-law?
grandparents-in-law?
grand-in-laws? (or great-in-laws?)?
shirttail-cousin-in-law?
shirttail in-laws? (meaning...  ?)
ex-in-law (meaning "my spouse's ex") /primary stress normally on ex-/
ex-in-laws (meaning "my ex's parents [and other relatives?]") /primary
             stress accent normally on -in-/
friend(s)-in-law?
relatives[ or relations]-in-law?
any other -in-law terms (boss-in-law, penpal-in-law, etc.)

Does the term "one's in-laws" mean for you *only* or *usually only* one's 
spouse's *parents*, or does it include *all* those to whom you are 
related by marriage?

Do you use or understand "-in-law" terms to refer only to relationship by 
legal/formal/ritual marriage, or is it also readily usable for 
relationships via SOSSLQs, SOOSLQs, mere boy/girl-friends, etc.?

Given your opinion of and experience with the foregoing, would you say 
that "-in-law" is or is not a "productive" suffix in current English?

I wouldn't mind hearing about corresponding or contrasting usages in 
other languages, too.

II.  In English, "crocodile tears" are insincere tokens of grief, regret 
or sadness.  In Russian, _Krokodil_ was a satirical magazine in the late 
Soviet period (is it still published?).  In colloquial Esperanto, 
"krokodili" is a verb meaning "to speak one's native ethnic tongue in a 
social context where Esperanto would be more appropriate.  (A bit of 
Esperanto folk etymology derives this verb from the Japanese "arigato" 
meaning "Thank you"; and some Esperantists have assigned meanings 
inspired by "krokodili" to other verbalized crocodilians:  aligatori, 
kajmani, gaviali... [cf. my .sig infra, where I guess "krokodiledi" means 
"to use Nahuatl in English and Esperanto media"] though my impression is 
none of these has gained wide currency.)  I'm interested in knowing more 
about the idioms and metaphorical usages in which various languages 
employ the crocodile.  

Is "crocodile tears" English-only, or is it a translingual usage?

What if any Russian idiomatic sense of "krokodil" gave rise to (or has 
since arisen from) its use in the magazine title?

Do any languages other than Esperanto have verbs derived from their roots 
for "crocodile", and if so what do they mean?

Do any languages other than Esperanto have colloquial (or even formal) 
verbs meaning "to speak language A where language B would make more sense 
or be more acceptable" or the like?

--
Liland Brajant ROS'    		"Intla yajuanti quinitzquise cohuame o intla
P O Box 30091      		quiise se pajyo, ax quinchihuilis tleno."
Seattle, WA 98103 Usono		
Tel. (206) 633-2434  		(Aj aj aj!  Liland krokodiledas!)
