Newsgroups: alt.usage.english,sci.lang
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From: mrz5149@cs.rit.edu (M. R. Zucca)
Subject: Re: Spaces after sentences, and inside ellipses
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References: <4m2561$138i@serra.unipi.it> <4m8e92$b3q@larry.rice.edu> <4m9tnt$he1@netnews.upenn.edu> <mrz5149-0205960620440001@cs.rit.edu> <3189A1A8.4B82@lunemere.com> <mrz5149-0305960340440001@cs.rit.edu> <318B8ED8.10BB@lunemere.com>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 15:16:41 GMT
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In article <318B8ED8.10BB@lunemere.com>, Truly Donovan
<truly@lunemere.com> wrote:

>Ordinarily, I wouldn't bother, but it was a parody of your post, which 
>you have deleted, thus taking my remark out of its context.  When you 
>challenge someone's credentials, you open the door to challenges of your 
>own credentials and that a is fact of life having nothing to do with the 
>place in the world of grammar-based elitism.

In my experience on news groups, a person's grammar is only brought in to play
during flame wars. It's a petty point to bring up in such a transient medium.
If you meant it as a parody, please use an emoticon such as ":)" to denote
your intentions.

>Not to mention that 
>alt.usage.english is where I am.

Actually, I didn't notice the cross posting until after I submitted the article.
I'm following this thread through sci.lang.

>> I would say that most of the time it is designed to look like "..." and not
>> ". . .". The fact that it is called an "ellipsis" in many electronic
>> representations is a mistake that goes back to the establishment of
particular
>> standards.
>
>Huh?  Standards?  In font design?  What standards body has the nerve to 
>try that?  Character sets, yes.  Font design?  Don't be silly.

Not design. If you look at the code for post-script fonts and other text-based
font codings such as bdf then you're likely to find the word "ellipsis" used to
describe the slot set aside for a particular glyph that is composed of
three dots.
 
>> Tell it to my typography teacher. He can tell the difference between leader
>> dots and periods faking as leader dots at 20 paces :) :)
>> 
>
>I will tell it to your typography teacher:  you can quote me. He can't 
>"tell the difference between leader dots and periods" unless they are in 
>the context of leader dots or periods.

Note the prolific use of smiley's at the end of my original sentence.

>  That he is OF THE OPINION that 
>certain kinds of little round typographical units should only be used as 
>periods and other kinds should only be used as leader dots is his 
>aesthetic judgment and pedantic right; but that shouldn't be confused 
>with the reality. "Leader dot" and "period" are functions, not specific 
>graphics.

This isn't a question of "my teacher said so." This is typographical fact.
If you set a line of type properly, then you use the right tool for the right
purpose. If you choose to ignore the rules, you had better make sure you
know them first. This is not just pedantic baloney I'm spouting here. This
is what people in "reality" deal with when they produce a fine typographic work.

If we return to our argument about ellipses and leader dots. Let it also be
known that it is possible to use "* * *" to also indicate an ellipsis.
Older standards dictated that an ellipsis is periods separated by en quads
or asterisks separated by em quads. Standards are a little bit more flexible
today so a space is sufficient instead of the traditional en or em quads.
Since the three dot character can't be both, it is not an ellipsis. It's only
remaining proper purpose can be as leader dots.

If you give an experienced typographer some text set with the "..." instead of
the proper ellipsis they will be able to tell you, at the very least, that the
ellipsis is not set correctly since the dots will be too close in almost any
font that has the "..." character.

-- 
______________________________________________________________________________
            Michael Zucca <> Rochester Institute Of Technology
    Email: mrz5149@rit.cs.rit.edu  Homepage: http://www.rit.edu/~mrz5149/
                     I will choose a path that's clear. 
                          I will choose Freewill.
                             - Rush, Freewill -
______________________________________________________________________________
