Newsgroups: sci.lang
From: Andre@shappski.demon.co.uk (Andre Shapps)
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!news2.near.net!news.mathworks.com!udel!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!peernews.demon.co.uk!shappski.demon.co.uk!Andre
Subject: Re: Linguistics for Kids
References: <3j3jg9$gh4@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
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Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 20:44:11 +0000
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In article: <3j3jg9$gh4@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>  asolovyo@silver.ucs.indiana.edu 
(ariadna a solovyova) writes:
> Problem 1

Can't do this one yet.

> Problem 2
> 
> Below you see some calculations in Danish. The numbers are given in their
> full form, only used in official documents. The spelling of the words is
> not always standard (but consistent). 
> 
> fem * fir = tyve
> fem * fem = femotyve
> fireofirsinstyve + seks = halvfemsinstyve
> seksotresinstyve + niden = femofirsinstyve
> femden + femotresinstyve = firsinstyve
> treden +        = niotyve
> seks * ni =    
> niotresinstyve + fireotyve = 
> 
> Fill in the blanks.

Since fem*fem = femotyve, assuming fem to be a single digit number, we are looking 
for a number x such that either x*x = (x*10)+tyve, or x*x = tyve+x, where tyve is 
possibly a number that is a multiple of 10.

The two digits satisfy this, 5 and 6 (5*5=25, 6*6=36), so at least we know that 
tyve means 20 or 30 in this context and that the "10's" number comes after the 
"units".

Looking at the first sum, we now see that either 5*fir=20, or 6*fir=30, so fir is
either 4 or 5. Danish is a Germanic language as far as I'm aware, so it's most 
likely that fir means 4. As a further clue, we see that seks is a number and this 
is most likely to be 6, indicating that fem can't be.

So - now we have tyve=20, fem=5, seks=6 and fir=4. At least, that's all consistent 
with itself. Looking ahead a bit it may be that digits mean different things 
depending on the context, so that while we have seen tyve to mean 20, it may mean 
2, or 200 in other cases. There is also a suggestion implicit in this that the "o" 
means that the thing before or after it is a "units" digit. We don't know which 
yet.

Now, if we make the assumption that sins means "hundreds" and that the number of 
hundred is given by the digit after it, we can try to make sense of the third sum, 
which comes down to: 244+6=halvfemsinstyve. Since we know the answer, we know that 
halvfemsinstyve means 250. The 200 is accounted for and we will assume that the 
"halv" was mecessary to transformed the 5 into a 50.

Since tre in almost certain to be three, the next sum looks like either 
236+niden=245, or 263+niden=254. Unless the Danish language has negative numbers 
all as one word, we will assume that niden means 9 (kind of sounds like it anyway) 
and that as far as 3 digit numbers go, the correct way to read them is right to 
left. Possibly "den" is sometimes added to a word when it is a single digit 
number.

The 5th of the sums then reads 5+235=240, which looks like it works and indicates 
that where we see words for two numbers only in a number we know to be of 3 
digits, the one that doesn't refer to the hundreds is a multiple of 10.

So:
> treden + x  = niotyve
  3      + x  = 29        => x = 26 (seksotyve)

> seks   * ni = x
  6      * 9  = x         => x = 54 (firofem)

> niotresinstyve + fireotyve = x
  239    + 24 = x         => x = 263 (treosekssintyve)

Can't be sure about the spelling, especially as to whether treosekssintyve has 2 
or 1 s's.

> 
> Problem 3
> 
> Below are three phrases from the Tadzhik language (one of the Central
> Asian languages of the former Soviet Union) with their English
> translations [in my transliteration - A.S.]: 
> 
> 1. dusti hubi xamsoai sumo    --    a good friend of your neighbour
> 2. xamsoai dusti hubi sumo    --    a neighbour of your good friend
> 3. xamsoai hubi dusti sumo    --    a good neighbour of your friend
> 
> Find out which English word corresponds to which of the Tadzhik words.

Assume that the adjective comes next to its noun. It could be before or after the 
noun, but for now we will assume that it always appears on the same side. Since 
good and friend go together in the first two examples, we are looking for a pair 
of words that appear together in the first two examples, but not the third. If 
this is not possible, then at least their order should be reversed in the third.

The words dusti and hubi are the only two words that satisfy this and it also 
gives us the information that whichever side of a noun an adjective appears, it is 
probably always the same side.

So, either dusti means good and hubi friend, or vice versa.

If we assume, for now, that it is the first if these that is true, then from the 
third example, sumo means neighbour (and the adjective comes first), therefore 
xamsoai means your. This version is supported by the fact that xamsoai always 
appears right next to the thing whuch belongs to it it each case.

If we assume that the second is true (hubi means good, dusti, friend), then from 
the third example xamsoai means neighbour (and the adjective comes 2nd), therefore 
sumo means your and the examples are still consistent in a logical sense since 
sumo always appears next to the thing which belongs to it.

Both versions seem to work, however I know of no languages where the determiner (I 
think that's what it's called) appears after the - erm - determinee, except when 
waxing slightly poetical, so I'm going for:

dusti   = good
hubi    = friend
sumo    = neighbour
xamsoai = your

Those are my stabs at it. Shoot me down in flames, why don't you :)
-- 
Andre Shapps

