Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.c++
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!oitnews.harvard.edu!purdue!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!dbuck
From: dbuck@superior.carleton.ca (Dave Buck)
Subject: Re: URGENT: Did I make a mistake ... C++ or SmallTalk?
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: superior.carleton.ca
Message-ID: <DIK0tA.FCq@cunews.carleton.ca>
Sender: news@cunews.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
References: <48td17$13r@brtph500.bnr.ca> <vwjohu41qs3.fsf@osfb.aber.ac.uk> <vwj7n0qevp6.fsf@osfb.aber.ac.uk> <493qdh$2h1@news.nevada.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 15:39:09 GMT
Lines: 84
Xref: glinda.oz.cs.cmu.edu comp.lang.smalltalk:31021 comp.lang.c++:161635

In article <493qdh$2h1@news.nevada.edu>, DAVE CASEY <casey@nevada.edu> wrote:
>Piercarlo Grandi (pcg@aber.ac.uk) wrote:
>: >>> On 23 Nov 1995 01:18:16 GMT, casey@nevada.edu (DAVE CASEY) said:
>
>: DAVE> Piercarlo Grandi (pcg@aber.ac.uk) wrote:
>
>: pcg> You _did_ a terrible mistake. C++ is an incredibly "hard" language,
>: pcg> [snip]
>: DAVE> Sounds to me like a disgruntled wannabe "geek" that couldn't get
>: DAVE> the hang of the C++ language
>
>: Sorry to disappoint you, but I am unfortuntaly (mostly to myself) one of
>: those hardcore geeks that can actually make full use of C++, actually a
>: short shameful confession is in order, I have claimed in the past to be
>
>That's okay and I think a short apology is in order on my part.  I fired 
>before I thought or even re-read your reply to realize that you were, in 
>fact, one who did understand the language.  
>
>I just get a little worked up when I see someone riding down a decent and 
>usable environment in favor of some fancy point and click game playing 
>software and begin to think they are real computer users.

After a nice apology, I'm afraid that your following comment is one
that could insult the Smalltalk users again.  For the record,
Smalltalk is not "some fancy point and click game playing software"
and the people who develop in is don't "begin to think they're real
computer users."

I honestly believe that you are making a statement about computer
literacy in general and not about Smalltalk in particular, but this
comment is in a thread about language comparisons.  In case you were
trying to make some points about Smalltalk, here are a few facts about
Smalltalk:

   - Smallltak pre-dates C++ by many years.  Smalltalk was first
developed internally in Xerox in the early 1970's with the first more
public release in 1980.

   - The people at Xerox who wrote Smalltalk actually invented the
modern windowing user interface with mice and overlapping bitmapped
windows and their ideas influenced Apple Computer and later others to
develop similar interfaces.

   - Smalltalk invented the term "object-oriented" although there were
similar concepts in a few other languages at the time.

>I remember 
>when I was a beginner, as I'm sure you do, back before a mouse was 
>something you sicked the cat on and windows were opened to let in fresh 
>air.

When I was a beginner, we didn't have mice or windows.  In fact, I
didn't even have a keyboard or monitor.  I had to use switches and
LED displays.  And I thought I was lucky. :-)

And then these new users come along who have keyboards and DOS and
monitors and mice.  They think they understand computers.  Why you
can't really understand computers unless you actually built one
yourself like I did and had to write your own hard disk drivers if you
were lucky enough to have a hard disk.  That's when you really learn
what computers are all about.

All kidding aside, let's take it easy on the people learning about
computers these days.  It's a tough thing to learn and in this day and
age it's more and more a necessity of life.  It's better to try to
help them learn than to claim that they're not "real" users.

Please, there's no need to reply to this message except through EMail.
This isn't Smalltalk at this point and shouldn't be in the Smalltalk
or C++ newsgroups.

P.S. No, I didn't take offense at your comments but do try to be
careful what you say on the Internet.

David Buck
dbuck@ccs.carleton.ca

_________________________________
| David K. Buck                 |
| dbuck@ccs.carleton.ca         |
| The Object People             |
|_______________________________|

