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From: tblanch@lookout (Todd Blanchard)
Subject: Re: C++ Productivity
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References: <1995Jan23.193745.7044@boole.com> <jim.fleming.84.00133AB6@bytes.com>  <D3Ls30.K1x@da_vinci.ecte.uswc.uswest.com> <1995Feb8.003254@hobbit> <3hahro$qtp@booz.bah.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 17:02:27 GMT
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Xref: glinda.oz.cs.cmu.edu comp.lang.c++:111693 comp.lang.smalltalk:20568 comp.object:26394

Gerald G. Washington (gerald@warbird.usae.bah.com) wrote:
: Mark S. Hathaway (hathawa2@marshall.edu) wrote:
: : > In article <D3Ls30.K1x@da_vinci.ecte.uswc.uswest.com>,
: : > tblanch@lookout (Todd Blanchard) writes:

: : [much deleted]

: : > C++ has been shown on several huge-scale projects to not scale well.

: : I've seen this statement several times.  Could you explain what it is about
: : it that does "not scale well"?

: You might also ask him to explain why C++ has been successful on several
: huge-scale projects.  

Now these I'd like to see.  I'll tell you one reason it has troubles:
Make is entirely too stupid a program for properly managing C++'s build
dependencies.  Compile times here are measured in hours.  It can take 3
hours to fix and test each line of code during debugging.  I have 70M
executables and the linker/compiler are blowing up frequently due to
lack of space on our hp755.  

The types versus roles thing is also a problem.  If my object supports a
message foo(int) then I want to be able to call it regardless of what my
object actually is.  In C++ this is enforced by a type system where I
would have to inherit from fooableObject to call foo, but in ST, if it
supports foo, I may simply use it.  Roles reduce a lot of what makes OO
design "hard".

WRT to the rabid supporters bit, you seem to be one as you are attacking
me big time.  You're reasoning appears to be:

Some supporters of C++ are rabid and irrational,
I use C++, 
therefore he is calling me rabid and irrational.

See the problem.  I have said several times that I think C++ is good for
some things.  I speak in the hopes that it will be improved.  For
instance, the Energize environment did a much better job of minimizing
the build penalty but that environment is now defunct.  

C++ needs something better than the separate compilation/makefile model
to get good turnaround.  Right now we can turnaround about a bug every
two days.  There are about 30 of us.  This is not cost effective.

Todd Blanchard
