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From: ian@syacus.acus.oz.au (Ian Joyner)
Subject: Re: Static vs Dynamic Typing: Effects on Productivity?
References: <DERWAY.94Aug23180251@alumni.ndc.com> 	<PFKEB.94Aug23200559@kaon.SLAC.Stanford.EDU> 	<1994Aug24.145521.5700@rcmcon.com> <TMB.94Aug25054643@arolla.idiap.ch> 	<33lsrp$ghu@pulitzer.eng.sematech.org> 	<1994Aug29.022054.4589@rcmcon.com> <SPETERS.94
Message-ID: <CvFLoB.AnD@syacus.acus.oz.au>
Organization: Australian Centre for Unisys Software, ACUS
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 03:28:59 GMT
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Aug29141346@samsun.us.oracle.com>

speters@samsun.us.oracle.com (Stephen Peters) writes:


>In article <1994Aug29.022054.4589@rcmcon.com> rmartin@rcmcon.com (Robert Martin) writes:
>> goochb@swim1.eng.sematech.org (Bill Gooch on SWIM project x7151) writes:
>> 
>> [responding as to why he enjoys dynamic typed languages]
>> 
>> >Actually, I think it's because I'm essentially a freedom junkie.
>> >I find that I'm much more comfortable (and productive) in an
>> >environment that lets me do pretty much whatever I want within
>> >the programming paradigm, and doesn't throw non-essential 
>> >constraints at me in the interest of "forcing" me to write
>> >"better" programs.  
>> 
>> I notice that you do not exercise your freedom with respect to the
>> spelling of the words in your posting.  Is this because you feel that
>> a certain amount of rigidity in the spelling and grammar of your
>> writings aids in communictaions?
                            ^^
Fairy vunny ;-)

>If I might respond to this rather silly analogy, I'm sure that he
>finds spelling "freely" rather obnoxious, considering that USENET as a
>whole tends to pop up "syntax errors" in the form of spelling flames.
>He's merely trying to get his words to compile cleanly.

No, Robert has an excellent analogy.  I read into it that all languages
are made up of tokens, but only certain combinations are valid.  In the
written word, a spell checker can to the tedious work of detecting
spelling errors (where the error does not result in another valid word
of the language).  Grammar checkers have been less successful, as
natural grammar is much more complex. 

However, with computer languages, the grammars are deliberately invented
so that mechanical checks can be made. This has to do with helping
the programmer, NOT limiting her freedom. A type system within a
language is a language of it's own that the programmer is inventing,
and this again can be checked. It helps detect inconsistencies that
we might be introducing, because of something purely mechanical that
our thought processes did not think of at the time. And it is good
programmers that know their own thought processes that admit we need
this kind of mechanical aid. This has got nothing to do with limiting
freedom or creativity. In fact it enhances it.

Further more it is not just syntax errors we are trying to catch, it
is semantic errors. If you get flamed on the net for spelling errors,
then the error has already propogated too far. When building software,
if this sort of error propogates to our customer, it costs us money,
to fix it and in lost faith. Even more so, if semantic errors get
through.

>Surely you don't think he wants to be *completely* free in his
>programming, do you?  I'd hate to see him then...writing gorgeous
>poems instead of C code and then ranting about the restrictions of the
>compiler! :-)

Well if programmers put as much thought, love and care into programming,
as a poet puts into crafting fine words, perhaps the industry would be
a better place. But then I would certainly rather be reading poetry than
C programs ;-{.
-- 
Ian Joyner           |"for when lenity and cruelty play   |All opinions are
Unisys (ACUS)        | for a kingdom, the gentler gamester|personal and are not
ian@syacus.acus.oz.au| is the soonest winner" W.S. Henry V|Unisys official comment
