Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!rochester!cornellcs!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!caen!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!news.mathworks.com!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!dircon!rheged!simon
From: simon@rheged.dircon.co.uk (Simon Brooke)
Subject: Re: Lisp considered too hard
Message-ID: <DBIFFr.2BB@rheged.dircon.co.uk>
Organization: none. Disorganization: total.
References: <jyntyd@bmtech.demon.co.uk> <3tmpqo$kd4@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 17:04:38 GMT
Lines: 42

In article <3tmpqo$kd4@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
HStearns <hstearns@aol.com> wrote:
>Scott, you've said that your "interest is in whether one can gain a
>working knowledge of the language in a reasonable evaluation period" and
>you site loop constructs as an example of a core part of the language
>which makes it hard for you to do this. 

And lots of other sensible things, ending up with:

>Unfortunately, I believe your viewpoint is not unique.  Many people look
>at the entire contents of the ANSI standard as being the "core" language. 
>Can you shed any light on why this perception exists, and what Lisp
>providers and educators might do to let users just learn the fundamentals
>and go have fun?
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^

I think this may actually be the key point. LisP (in any of its
varieties) is a tool for people for whom computers are *fun* *things*;
for people who play. Don't for a moment think that this implies I
don't think LisP is a serious programming language: far from it, all
the best learning and all the best creative work are carried forward
in a spirit of play: a joyful experimentation, a lack of fear of
failure.

Unfortunately many people in Western societies have lost the
confidence to play. They fear to fail, and surround their work with
elaborate structures of safety nets. They use only tools they
believe they understand fully -- 

this is nonsense of course. Any modern computer system is way too
complex for anyone to understand fully. Like any other work of Magick,
you have to put some faith in the competence of the other wizards.

-- and consequently they'll never learn LisP. They'll never achieve
much, either. It isn't because they won't learn LisP that they wont
achieve much: it's because they've forgotten how to play.

-- 
------- simon@rheged.dircon.co.uk (Simon Brooke)

	my other car is #<Subr-Car: #5d480>
				;; This joke is not funny in emacs.
